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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Jim Patchell's Vocal Filter
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3759
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:27 pm    Post subject: Jim Patchell's Vocal Filter
Subject description: a huge professional manufactured PCB
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hi all,

recently i stumbled over Jim Patchell's Vocal Filter.
i listened to the samples at his site which are amazing. these samples convinced me to want this filter. so i downloaded the gerber files and sent them to futurlec. they made this PCB for me (below). it's a huge project. i will keep you posted...

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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cheers,
matthias
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Last edited by fonik on Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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andrewF



Joined: Dec 29, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That was nice of JimP to put it in the public domain.

I bought one of these boards from Jim back in about 2003...or so.
it sat around for the next 3 years 'til I could muster enthusiasm for it -it IS a huge project - plenty of panel wiring to do too.

Nevertheless, it worked from first start up (glad i didn't have to find any errors).

I suspect there are plenty of these PCBs patiently sitting in various 'to do' boxes all over the world Smile

good luck!!
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thank you, andrew. i started populating the PCB yesterday. so once i started i will finish it, i think. Wink
the plan is to put it in a 2U or 3U rackcase... did you built it with full voltage control?

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matthias
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andrewF



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yep, 42 pots! 3 CV inputs and outputs, Q, freq and vowel CV inputs.
sig in and sig out.
may as well do the lot, if you are going to the trouble Laughing

JimP did good documents for it, so really, a fairly easy build, just a lot of repetition.
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loss1234



Joined: Jul 24, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wow
that IS one big board.

how does it sound? any rare parts?


fonik
do you use futurlec for all your boards? how much do they charge for a board that big?

thanks

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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

loss1234 wrote:
how does it sound?

check jim's site for the samples (link above)
Quote:
any rare parts?

just 9x CA3280

Quote:
do you use futurlec for all your boards? how much do they charge for a board that big?

for the PCB sales i use express PCB. very fast and you can rely on their service.
i used futurlec for this PCB the first time. i think it is okay for prototypes. AFAIK there is no price break for higher quantities...

i won't tell anyone what i've paid for this PCB, you'd called me mad Wink
(just go to their site an type in the size and the specs of the PCB you desire and you will immediately see the pricing.)

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Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
cheers,
matthias
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b-funk



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

interesting. i found this vocal filter a little while ago, too, but i didn´t read further as i didn´t want to do the pcb myself.
so, fonik, are you planning to make this available in some form, or is this just a personal project of yours?

best wishes,

tobias
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fonik



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so far it is just a personal project. however if there is enough interest we could ask jim for permission to do a PCB run. nevertheless i want to build one for me first.
this project is rather expensive - at least from my point of view. the PCB is huge and a lot of UI (hardware) is needed...

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cheers,
matthias
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CJ Miller



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Gorgeous... I was just looking at this on Jim's site last week. I noticed that one page lists many PCBs as being available, even though it didn't seem to have been updated in a long time. The sound files he posted are amazing.

If people think that this board is huge and expensive, then they should check out his Mikado sequencer. As of 2006 this project claimed that PCBs were coming soon… I thought to myself: "Jim making this is admirable dedication, and skill", but PCBs? "Ok, now Jim is officially nuts if he is going to be offering such PCBs for sale." Nuts in a good way, mind you! But I was not really surprised that the PCBs never made it out.

http://www.technotoys.com/mikado/
http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/seqproj/seqproj.html

My backlog is daunting enough at this time, giant projects until I have at least a couple dozen of these modules finished, housed, and working!
(goes back to pic at top of thread…)
Oh, and Jim made one of my favorite Atari editors for the TX816, which I still break out on occaision. Jim is one of the true original greats of SDIY history.
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Etaoin



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
you'd called me mad Wink


Indeed!

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Peake



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Although it's not DIY, the Technosaurus Selector TRES is an option, if you add CV ranging. It provides volume proportional to resonance, for example. The volume stays level as you increase the Q, and it will self-oscillate. Each band has independent CV control, resonance, Fc, and level. Bandpass only, no individual outputs. The only real drawback I'm aware of is that the upper range maxes out at 8KHz, the bands won't self-oscillate without some audio input source, and they are slightly smaller-sounding than the BPFs on the standard Selector filters.

Fonik, you appear to be very into triple resonance effects, and I wanted to point this out to you, and others. It's not as complex as the new Buchla triple filter, and not as seductive and DIY as a blank PCB.

People keep searching for something that I believe already exists... Just putting it out there. Sorry for the buzzkill.

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fluxmonkey



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i have a patchell vocal filter in my MOTM rack, it sounds gorgeous. you will enjoy it.


Peake wrote:
People keep searching for something that I believe already exists... Just putting it out there. Sorry for the buzzkill.

no apologies, no buzzkill, nobody's listening to you Very Happy
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Peake



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bbob wrote:
Peake wrote:
People keep searching for something that I believe already exists... Just putting it out there. Sorry for the buzzkill.

no apologies, no buzzkill, nobody's listening to you Very Happy


Obviously, including you Laughing

More gold for me that way, if no one else wants any! Although it's interesting to watch people purposely avoiding gold just for the sake of avoiding gold. I never tire of it.

Edit: The Patchell sounds good, which counts for a lot. I look forward to seeing/hearing the results.
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Peake



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bbob wrote:
no apologies, no buzzkill, nobody's listening to you Very Happy


Say, you'll be =desperate= to ignore this key to vocal synthesis:

The Speech Chain: The Physics and Biology of Spoken Language.

It's by two Bell Labs scientists, and there is a chart in there of the various formant frequencies and amplitudes of the different vowels, plosives, fricatives, etc.

But then you aren't even reading this or something. It is to shrug.

I hope that you might enjoy it, Fonik. It taught me a great deal.
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asafnetzer



Joined: Jun 16, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds like a great project.
I really don't have the time / money for a project this big right now but would love to hear about your progress Fonik.
Later on, if Jim agrees and there is enough interest, maybe we could organize a group order of the pcb's.
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Luka



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

and parts kits Smile
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loss1234



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

peake-i usually avoid buying pre made modules due to cost. not due to avoiding gold Smile

i can make a module for at most 100 bucks. with home made panel. i have found few modules anywhere near that price. and often i can make a module for 50.

but i WILL check it out.

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Peake



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

loss1234 wrote:
peake-i usually avoid buying pre made modules due to cost. not due to avoiding gold Smile

i can make a module for at most 100 bucks. with home made panel. i have found few modules anywhere near that price. and often i can make a module for 50.

but i WILL check it out.


loss, I completely agree, hence my interest in DIY, and modules such as the Mankato, SSM2044, Tau, etc. The Patchell design sounds great and is extremely versatile, and I'm pleased to see something like that come along (kudos to fonik for the initiative and curiosity), and I'm sorry to hijack the thread with a ready-built alternative, but IMO it's a superb alternative, until now leaving other DIY projects and modules in the dust. I wouldn't barge in on an SSM2044 thread with demands to consider another filter...and I'll now limit my participation in this thread to supporting its initiative. I'm interested in hearing what this design can do.

It looks like each of the three bands has not only a bandpass output, but a lowpass output as well; know that one resonant lowpass mixed with a separately modulated bandpass will allow for all of the EEE through AAA vowels, but you'll need scaling of the individual filter Fc travel (and contrary motion; Zon Vern Pyles perfectly demonstrated this technique on the Andromeda based upon his Nord programming). One band can be used to tightly accentuate, without Fc motion, the siblance/buzz/breath. (Nord folks, do you have any secrets like these?)

As such, it should be very interesting to hear what three sets can do.
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TheAncientOne



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My timing has definitely taken a turn for the worst: I was about to post to see if there was any interest in boards for this, once I'd emailed Jim Patchell to seek permission.

I've wanted to do one of these for a while. It does seem there might be some more interest, though as Fonik says, it's not going to be a budget priced board.

I think it's worth canvassing for interest, then if there are 10 or so takers including myself, and Jim gives his blessing, I might go the batch route rather than have a one-off done.

So, given that this will probably be a $100 plus board, and is for experienced builders only, is anyone else interested?

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asafnetzer



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Mike,

Did Jim gave you his permission ?
What is the board size, judging by the photo, is no more then 10 X 8 inch.
I haven't tried any pcb's manufactures other then futurlec and they would charge ~ $60 a board when ordering 10 pieces.
At around that price I would be very interested, $100 a board is a lot for me right now.
And knowing from the past, people here would show more interest then expected, this could lower the price even more.

Asaf
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TheAncientOne



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

When I checked at Futurelec it came out to more than that. I put up a ball park price, because I won't know for certain until I get a final number, I'd rather pleasently surprise people with a lower price than upset them with a higher one. For 10 off, the commercial side of PCB express look best so far. My UK supplier I use for normal business work is good at about $60 per board, but the batch setup costs are a killer at just under $400. Since the gerbers are "known good" - Jim is a pro - I won't be doing the usual test board. If using a US board maker, I might enlist a states side member's help and get the delivery split, to save postage.

I've emailed JIm, and actually siggested that he might want to do another run himself, and otherwise asked for permission.

I might have a source for a batch of 3280's too, thugh all this is on the back burner until I get the bulk orders I'm doing over on the MIDIbox forum finished. One thought is to do a board plus rarer parts type of kit.

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asafnetzer



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mike,

I have just check the BOM and all is available through futurlec, even the 3280E at $1.90 a piece.
We could do a kit / rare kit order, I don't mind handling that when we know about the boards, just need to collect my money back after the Sifam knobs order.

Asaf
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bubblechamber



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

one thing to keep in mind is that the price you get with the futurlec estimate is based on using very specific sizes for holes, vias and pads. if you use different sizes they charge a lot extra.

if there was enough interest, 25-40 boards, then it would be a lot cheaper to go to someplace like PCBcart.com or myropcb.com. we could probably get the board price down to $20-30 each.

I'm going to be dealing with PCBcart for the first time in a couple of weeks and I'd be happy to report back on the experience.
David
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Luka



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

if its $20-30 i would be interested
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newdendrite



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd be interested in a couple of boards at around the $100 level.

Michael
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