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Stereo Fuzz Circuit
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:10 am    Post subject: Stereo Fuzz Circuit
Subject description: Please check my schematic?
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I've been thinking for a while about developing a stereo fuzz circuit. I think it would be just as useful for synths, but I s'pose I'll post about it here instead now. Smile
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Last edited by Uncle Krunkus on Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds interesting, what sort of idea did you have?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, how does this stereo fuzz circuit work? Perhaps I could prototype it in ChucK for you? I'm getting into prototyping stuff in ChucK and then building it.
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well I wanted to come up with some way of making two unique yet related channels of distortion without using "standard" ways of dividing them.

I have no idea if my idea will work or do anything at all really.

"Gentlemen, all I'm asking you... ...is to witness a demonstration
of movement. ...within the fourth dimension!" Laughing

Okay,
Take two (virtually) identical diode clipping fuzz circuits. I think germanium diodes or LEDs (as in the "red fuzz") would work well. I actually have a collection of vintage glass germaniums like the OA71 etc. which I'd like to try. Now bridge the diodes on one of the circuits with a small inductor so that everything below a certain frequency can escape around the side of the diodes and not be clipped. The trick is that the inductor is one side of a small matching transformer. The other side is across the diodes from the other circuit, out of phase. My reasoning is that the diodes will break down at slightly different thresholds, and the transformer will compound or inhibit the clipping in an interactive way.

Sorry to say that it may not be able to be translated into Chuck Les. Sad

Like I said, I need to find time to actually breadboard it and see what happens. Or maybe someone else will save me the effort? Laughing

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

An interesting thing I realised the other day was that a ring modulator is two transformers with a diode bridge inbetween them.
This idea is basically two half diode bridges with a transformer in between them.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus, I believe that is quite dooable in ChucK, at least in an approximate way. the clipping can be done with a x/(1+|x|) distortion and the LPF module can send out the low frequencies. Do I have the model right?
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Inventor wrote:
Uncle Krunkus, I believe that is quite dooable in ChucK, at least in an approximate way. the clipping can be done with a x/(1+|x|) distortion and the LPF module can send out the low frequencies. Do I have the model right?


But how do you simulate the interaction between the two opposing flux densities which are inside the transformer? The complexity of that interaction is the only thing I'm counting on to actually make it work.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah, then you're right, it is not well suited for prototyping in ChucK! Let us know how you fare!
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Oskar



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
I've been thinking for a while about developing a stereo fuzz circuit. I think it would be just as useful for synths, but I s'pose I'll post about it here instead now. Smile


Smells like it should be a different thread, as it's a very interesting subject in itself! thumleft

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Branch the thread off! It'll be your first official duty as keeper of the forum. Make a new thread, I double dare you!
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Unfortunately neither of us as looked at the Moderator tutorial video yet, so this level for forum expertise is beyond us.

Just a sec I will give it a go.......
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Oskar



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Inventor wrote:
Branch the thread off! It'll be your first official duty as keeper of the forum. Make a new thread, I double dare you!


Well, the reason I own a Mac is I'm too technically inept to run a Windows computer, so I'm really glad there's BobTheDog to solve these impossible tasks! Embarassed Wink

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, no! You've opened up the Mac vs. PC can of worms! I quickly shut the lid!
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well I managed it on a Mac, lessons are available for the price of a small beer.

I have a sneaky feeling Unkle Krunkus has placed it in the other thread as some kind of moderator initiation test.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Inventor wrote:
Oh, no! You've opened up the Mac vs. PC can of worms! I quickly shut the lid!


It ain't really a major point for me, I'm waddling around, content in my own colossal incompetence, so I wouldn't care to tell anyone anything about computers - it's all voodoo as far as I'm concerned. That's the kind of mod this forum needs! Cool

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BobTheDog wrote:
Well I managed it on a Mac, lessons are available for the price of a small beer.


Bexhill, Brighton or Trondheim? Tell you what, that's as good an excuse as any for me to go gallivanting across the North Sea! Cool

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Oskar



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Back to Unckle K's original idea - two discreet fuzz/distortion thingys working in parallel/stereo mode. That is really interesting, it's deffo a way of livening proceedings up a bit! As I have no knowledge, practical or theoretical, of electronics, I won't say anything about the technical aspects of such a gizmo, but I was wondering, do you plan to include pan controls, or or do you want to set them panned extreme L-R, or do you see them as two fuzz units working in parallel on the same signal? Or have I completely missed the point?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Having branched off the thread in the name of Uncle Krunkus's stero fuzz circuit, we have now successfully meandered off-topic and confused everything as usual! Is this how you people intend to run the Strings and Things forum? I certainly hope so!
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oskar wrote:
Back to Unckle K's original idea - two discreet fuzz/distortion thingys working in parallel/stereo mode. That is really interesting, it's deffo a way of livening proceedings up a bit! As I have no knowledge, practical or theoretical, of electronics, I won't say anything about the technical aspects of such a gizmo, but I was wondering, do you plan to include pan controls, or or do you want to set them panned extreme L-R, or do you see them as two fuzz units working in parallel on the same signal? Or have I completely missed the point?


How about some AGC with that? I've often thought that effects like distortion could use some AGC so they work at all amplitudes, not just on the loud stuff.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Inventor wrote:
Oskar wrote:
Back to Unckle K's original idea - two discreet fuzz/distortion thingys working in parallel/stereo mode. That is really interesting, it's deffo a way of livening proceedings up a bit! As I have no knowledge, practical or theoretical, of electronics, I won't say anything about the technical aspects of such a gizmo, but I was wondering, do you plan to include pan controls, or or do you want to set them panned extreme L-R, or do you see them as two fuzz units working in parallel on the same signal? Or have I completely missed the point?


How about some AGC with that? I've often thought that effects like distortion could use some AGC so they work at all amplitudes, not just on the loud stuff.


For the benefit of your non-technical mod, what's an AGC? In layman's terms please. Feel free to meander!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

AGC is Automatic Gain Control. It's a variable gain amplifier that boosts the signal more when the signal is low and less when it is strong. It is more difficult to accomplish in hardware than in software, in my experience.

The idea behind say AGC and fuzz is that fuzz clips off the top of the signal, but only when the signal is strong enough to be clipped off. With AGC you would clip it off all the time. That is, if I understand fuzz correctly to be a clipping circuit.

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Inventor wrote:
AGC is Automatic Gain Control. It's a variable gain amplifier [...]


Guess a guitar player would use the word "compressor" ...

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Inventor wrote:
AGC is Automatic Gain Control. It's a variable gain amplifier [...]


Guess a guitar player would use the word "compressor" ...


Right, them's cool things! Thanks Jan!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Inventor wrote:
AGC is Automatic Gain Control. It's a variable gain amplifier [...]


Guess a guitar player would use the word "compressor" ...


Oh, I didn't know a compressor was an AGC, I thought a compressor was a circuit with a non-linear transfer function that has lower gain at higher amplitudes.

By AGC, I neglected to mention, I meant that the circuit would have a rectifier and low pass filter controlling the AGC gain so that the signal is boosted or attenuated by the *average* (or, technically, the *peak*) of it's amplitude, not the instantaneous amplitude. I have done this in software, but not in hardware.

There is a subtle but key difference there.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Inventor wrote:
Oh, I didn't know a compressor was an AGC, I thought a compressor was a circuit with a non-linear transfer function that has lower gain at higher amplitudes.


One way to build a compressor is to use a light bulb and an LDR, on high amplitudes the light gets brighter and the LDR then "shorts" the signal more; this has some slowness just like an AGC has.

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