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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
Simple CD4046 VCO
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slacker



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:57 am    Post subject: Simple CD4046 VCO Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's a schematic and a couple of sound clips for a simple CD4046 based VCO.
Just feed its inputs with signals and depending on which inputs are high or low it plays a different pitch, if I've got it right it should play 32 different pitches. The resistors should really be scaled so each one is twice the size of the previous one ie:- 25k, 50k, 100k, 200k, 400k but I figured the values I had were close enough for a Lunetta. You could also use an R-2R ladder instead, but that uses more components. You can add more inputs to give a greater number of notes.
The overall range of the pitches is set by the frequency pot and the value of the capacitor between pins 6 and 7. The slide pot adds glide or portamento to the notes.
Pin 5 can be used to add modulation, I haven't experimented with the other pins yet.

In the sound clips it's being driven by a bunch of outputs from a shift register.

Enjoy Smile


lunvco.png
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lunvco.mp3
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4046 VCO

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lunvcoslide.mp3
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4046 VC0 with slide/portamento

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Pehr



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nice one. I'm actually planning to some PLLs in my lunetta core, but haventä figured out how.

The idea with R2R-ladder network is a good idea, I think I'll try that one.

I will also make pure PLL-modules so one can use the frequency tracking aswell http://www.doepfer.de/A196.htm

Very Happy

btw, what is the range of this VCO?

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slacker



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

At the minute with a 47n cap between pins 6 and 7 it goes from a few Hz to about 3.5Khz. I'm still experimenting with values to get the most useful range.
Playing with it again the slide pot probably needs a switch to disconnect it when you don't want portamento. Even a 1 meg pot still gives a bit of slide on low notes.
I think you're right an R-2R ladder will probably be better, especially if you made it so it could be used on its own for other things. I just threw it together like this on the breadboard to see if it worked.

Thanks for posting that Doepfer thing, it looks pretty interesting.
I've tried some other PLL ideas to do pitch tracking, that might be useful to you. Basically just based on the Wasp glide circuit and Scott Gravenhorst's PLL frequency mulitplier.
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slacker



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's a slightly better version using an R-2R ladder on the inputs. The changes in component values and the added resistor off pin 12 means it now goes from just below audio up to about 16Khz.
When I build it I'll probably patch out the resistor ladder so I can use it for other things. That will hopefully also mean it should be possible to add a switchable resistor or pot from pin 9 to pins 2 or 13 to use it for frequency tracking like Pehr mentioned.


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4046 VCO version 2
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DGTom



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very Happy I have some 4046s in the post on the way here! Just bought em cheap to play around with, now I have a cool intended use for em!

I was thinking putting some switches on the R values here could be cool, kinda like "High / Low" selector, would give you enough 'control' to push the CCT in the direction you like.
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slacker



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah that sounds like a cool idea. Adding a much larger cap switchable in parallel with the 10n might be useful as well, that would lower the frequency so you could use it as a voltage controlled LFO.

I'm thinking of some sort of momentary push buttons on the inputs might be interesting as well. If you arranged them so they pulled the inputs high or low you'd have a weird keyboard.
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Pehr



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

slacker wrote:
Here's a slightly better version using an R-2R ladder on the inputs. The changes in component values and the added resistor off pin 12 means it now goes from just below audio up to about 16Khz.
When I build it I'll probably patch out the resistor ladder so I can use it for other things. That will hopefully also mean it should be possible to add a switchable resistor or pot from pin 9 to pins 2 or 13 to use it for frequency tracking like Pehr mentioned.


Yes, I had that thought about a separate ladder aswell, since I prob want to use it as an output stage too.

Also, I think you need a 7-bit ladder for chromatic scale. But I'm not sure since it is a linear VCO.

Then it becomes some kind of DCO! just connect a binary counter to all the inputs and it will ramp Very Happy or random clocks to make weird sequences...
I got to start building soon Rolling Eyes

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pehr wrote:

Also, I think you need a 7-bit ladder for chromatic scale. But I'm not sure since it is a linear VCO.


I'm not sure either, I'll try hooking it up to a tuner and see what sort of intervals I'm getting between pitches. I don't expect it to be in tune but it would be interesting to see roughly how many octaves it's got and how they are spilt.

I'll probably play around with different size ladders. I went with 5-bit because I thought it would give the opportunity for a lot more variation than 4-bit. That, plus the fact I ran out of crocodile leads to hook it up.

Quote:

Then it becomes some kind of DCO! just connect a binary counter to all the inputs and it will ramp Very Happy


Like this you mean Very Happy


lunvcoscale.mp3
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4046 VCO plays the scale of Lunetta

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synthmonger



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You can swap the frequency pot with a NMOS transistor wired as a current sink to get CV over that parameter. Leave the other resistor off pin 12 and you'll get a huge range.
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richardc64



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Neat-O. I see a couple of possibilities.

You could use SF out (called Demod in some data sheets,) as the CV for a second 4046 as a slave (harmonizing?) VCO. You could then use the XOR (Phase Comp I,) in either 4046 to "ring mod" the two VCO's outputs.

It might also be interesting to hear what the output of Phase Comp II sounds like.

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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The CD4046, tuning scales, Lunetta machine ....... ???

Surprised Laughing

For myself at least, as I've so far said in a coming manifesto: "All Deathlehem music is being not-wrought in the Key of Naught." Wink

I.E. I'm not worried about any tuning scales, or standards, with my noise machine(s). I'm letting them create themselves. Dissonant or pure - it's all fun. Very Happy
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synthmonger



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

richardc64 wrote:
Neat-O. I see a couple of possibilities.

You could use SF out (called Demod in some data sheets,) as the CV for a second 4046 as a slave (harmonizing?) VCO. You could then use the XOR (Phase Comp I,) in either 4046 to "ring mod" the two VCO's outputs.

It might also be interesting to hear what the output of Phase Comp II sounds like.


That's a pretty cool idea. Smile
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slacker



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

richardc64 wrote:

You could use SF out (called Demod in some data sheets,) as the CV for a second 4046 as a slave (harmonizing?) VCO.


Great idea, I hadn't really looked at what SF did until you mentioned it. Just for a laugh I hooked an LED up to it and it makes a cool pulsing indicator, completely pointless but you can never have too many blinkenlights.

Quote:

It might also be interesting to hear what the output of Phase Comp II sounds like.


It sounds good Smile Here's a quick clip
I've got a bunch of clocks feeding the R-2R ladder and an audio speed clock going in to pin 14. Pins 3 and 4 are tied together so the VCO out is feeding the comparator ins. The sound clip is the output of pin4 then pin 2, pin 1 and finally pin 13.


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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

slacker wrote:

It sounds good Smile Here's a quick clip
I've got a bunch of clocks feeding the R-2R ladder and an audio speed clock going in to pin 14. Pins 3 and 4 are tied together so the VCO out is feeding the comparator ins. The sound clip is the output of pin4 then pin 2, pin 3 and finally pin 13.


Whoa! Surprised Cool! I'm going to have to look into all of the above mentioned to see about using these as modifications for my future Liquid Voices! Very Happy

Thanks for posting that clip! Very Happy
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richardc64



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rykhaard wrote:
Whoa! Surprised Cool!


I second that.

slacker wrote:
Great idea, I hadn't really looked at what SF did until you mentioned it. Just for a laugh I hooked an LED up to it and it makes a cool pulsing indicator, completely pointless but you can never have too many blinkenlights.


Ah. Then it would need some sort of smoothing and would probably be too slow to use as a CV for a 2nd 4046. Too bad.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I haven't had time to record anything but slaving up a second 4046 using the SF output works great, thanks for the tip. It follows the master one but it sort of slides and warbles between pitches rather than jumping cleanly from pitch to pitch, sounds really good. Didn't try hooking up LEDs as well, but if I have to loose a flashing light I can live with that.
Just connecting pin 9 of each chip together also works well.

I also tried using the phase comparators as stand alone modulators with interesting results. Obviously Phase comp 1 is just a XOR, but you can never have too many of those. Phase comparator 2 gives some nice stuttering patterns and glitchy PWM sort of sounds. It's worth checking these out even if you're not interested in the VCO side of things.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rykhaard wrote:
The CD4046, tuning scales, Lunetta machine ....... ???

Surprised Laughing

For myself at least, as I've so far said in a coming manifesto: "All Deathlehem music is being not-wrought in the Key of Naught." Wink

I.E. I'm not worried about any tuning scales, or standards, with my noise machine(s). I'm letting them create themselves. Dissonant or pure - it's all fun. Very Happy


It's nice to have the possibility though Wink

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Agreed, I love doing noise things with mine and even without any attempt at tuning just letting it do its thing can sound pretty musical at times . It would be nice to be able to get it in tune enough to be able to jam along with it on guitar though.
I haven't had much success yet though, I think if you manually went through all the possible input combinations you could probably find enough notes to make some sort of recognisable scale. The problem would be how to clock it so that you only fed it the good combinations.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

slacker wrote:
Agreed, I love doing noise things with mine and even without any attempt at tuning just letting it do its thing can sound pretty musical at times . It would be nice to be able to get it in tune enough to be able to jam along with it on guitar though.
I haven't had much success yet though, I think if you manually went through all the possible input combinations you could probably find enough notes to make some sort of recognisable scale. The problem would be how to clock it so that you only fed it the good combinations.


For all of my noise tests and coming noise compositions, I'm throwing all known / standard tuning scales out the window. Wink Whatever sounds good to me as I'm twisting knobs and un/plugging cables is fine to me. Smile Harmonious or dissonant, it's all cool as per the desired mood for the piece. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Perhaps what I need to do is untune my guitar to the key of naught Very Happy

I came up with a cool way of controlling 2 of the VCOs with one pot last night.
Basically you connect pin 11 of the first 4046 to the clockwise lug of a 100k - 1M pot and connect pin 11 of the second 4046 to the anticlockwise lug. Then connect the wiper to ground through a 10k resistor.
If you stick the pot in the middle and feed both VCOs the same CV, then within the tolerances of all the parts they play the same tune. If you move the pot towards either extreme the base frequency of one of the VCOs goes up and the other goes down so you get harmonies, ringmod the 2 together and all manner of madness ensues Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

slacker wrote:
Perhaps what I need to do is untune my guitar to the key of naught Very Happy

I came up with a cool way of controlling 2 of the VCOs with one pot last night.
Basically you connect pin 11 of the first 4046 to the clockwise lug of a 100k - 1M pot and connect pin 11 of the second 4046 to the anticlockwise lug. Then connect the wiper to ground through a 10k resistor.
If you stick the pot in the middle and feed both VCOs the same CV, then within the tolerances of all the parts they play the same tune. If you move the pot towards either extreme the base frequency of one of the VCOs goes up and the other goes down so you get harmonies, ringmod the 2 together and all manner of madness ensues Twisted Evil


WHOA!! Twisted Evil Time to get out a pair of 4046's to try THAT with! Ex'llent man! Thanks for coming up with that! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

slacker wrote:
I haven't had time to record anything but slaving up a second 4046 using the SF output works great, thanks for the tip. It follows the master one but it sort of slides and warbles between pitches rather than jumping cleanly from pitch to pitch, sounds really good.
I'd REALLY love to hear that - I guess it's a bit like a PLL tracking poorly?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the new edition to nic collins' hardware hacking book has some new circuits added many of which feature the 4046... a vco and some pitch tracking circuits

ive only flipped through the book (i dont think its officially out until net week...) but nic showed me a fun circuit that has two 4046s trying to follow each others pitch

its a really fun chip!
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jnuaury wrote:
the new edition to nic collins' hardware hacking book has some new circuits added many of which feature the 4046... a vco and some pitch tracking circuits

ive only flipped through the book (i dont think its officially out until net week...) but nic showed me a fun circuit that has two 4046s trying to follow each others pitch

its a really fun chip!


hmm... i bought nic's book a few months ago... i wonder if you could do an upgrade... Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

aerogramma wrote:
hmm... i bought nic's book a few months ago... i wonder if you could do an upgrade... Wink


I just got mine last week! It's a fun read, reminds me of how much experimentation I had time for in my 20s, before working 16 hour days... Just simple enough to get over the feature-creep that keeps my analog system from coming together. I am home sick tonight and am definately going to play with my cache of CMOS chips.
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