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All Musical Samples Must Be Paid For
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

phasercs101 wrote:
Interesting topic this is.


Laughing and one that will never lie.

Remember the "Home taping is killing music" logo on almost every record sleeve throughout the late 70's through to the eighties (and nineties)? But what changed? Nothing. The only real losers from this aren't necessarily the artists, but the publishers and the label owners who make the actual money. Does anyone give a monkeys if REM, Madonna or U2 etc etc etc loose a few bucks?

IMO, what kills music is fashion and not home taping (sampling- if you like. It's roughly the same thing). The moderators here on electro-music are continually removing posters who push mix tapes- because we wish to survive as a forum, but otoh, a good mixtape is high creativity and should be encouraged. I am of course speaking for myself and not the others.

Perhaps the phrase "The music industry is killing music" would be more appropriate?
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

phasercs101 wrote:
phew this is more fun than working! HAHA back to work for me. I'm a sucker for distraction. Which electro-music.com is more than happy to provide.


Cool Laughing
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Not that I know a lot about trademarks, but they are linked to a particular business activity. For example, the name MacDonald's may be a trade mark for restaurants and food products, but it won't apply to an unrelated business like septic tank cleaning chemicals.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Not that I know a lot about trademarks, but they are linked to a particular business activity. For example, the name MacDonald's may be a trade mark for restaurants and food products, but it won't apply to an unrelated business like septic tank cleaning chemicals.



Uh.. well.. but in this case the restaurant biz equals the septic tank biz??

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

This character was last seen poking pipes in downtown San Diego.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
downtown San Diego.


Oh that might be a good place, just read an article about thin people having a different bacterial balance in their intestines (different from fat people) resulting in more nutritious excrements (and hence helping them to stay skinny).

This is getting OT a bit isn't it ...

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:

This character was last seen poking pipes in downtown San Diego.

I'd rather be insane Diego too Cool

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

...this just in from my local rave list:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/18/arts/music/18dram.html?_r=1&oref=slogin


With Arrest of DJ Drama, the Law Takes Aim at Mixtapes


By KELEFA SANNEH
<http>
Published: January 18, 2007

In the world of hip-hop few music executives have more influence than DJ
Drama. His “Gangsta Grillz” compilations have helped define this decade’s
Southern rap explosion. He has been instrumental in the careers of rappers
like Young Jeezy and Lil Wayne. He appears on the cover of the March issue
of the hip-hop magazine XXL, alongside his friend and business partner T.I.,
the top-selling rapper of 2006. And later this year DJ Drama is scheduled to
make his Atlantic Records debut with “Gangsta Grillz: The Album.”

Now DJ Drama is yet another symbol of the music industry’s turmoil and
confusion.

On Tuesday night he was arrested with Don Cannon, a protégé. The police,
working with the Recording Industry Association of America
<http>,
raided his office, at 147 Walker Street in Atlanta. The association makes no
distinction between counterfeit CDs and unlicensed compilations like those
that DJ Drama is known for. So the police confiscated 81,000 discs, four
vehicles, recording gear, and “other assets that are proceeds of a pattern
of illegal activity,” said Chief Jeffrey C. Baker, from the Morrow, Ga.,
police department, which participated in the raid.

DJ Drama (whose real name is Tyree Simmons) and Mr. Cannon were each charged
with a felony violation of Georgia’s Racketeering Influenced Corrupt
Organization law(known as RICO) and held on $100,000 bond.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This had to happen.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oh, i agree 100%...and i support this action. i'm not so familliar with the hip hop world, and i don't know how what this guy does compares with what others of larger and smaller stature do, but the attitude that, "hey, i'm making art by sequencing very large parts of other people's complete works" or "my taste in music makes me an artist" is more than a little out of hand. somehow, i think this is related to the current trend of "online universities".

i attended a spiritual program today (ramakrisha vedanta...basically the philosophy behind hindu practice). i often get great nuggets of knowledge from these (ramona is a devotee). one of the points made today was "it's important to strive to bring ones practice up to the ideal...and not to lower the ideal to match the practice". for some reason, this is what seems to have happened (and at exactly the same time that it became possible for one person to write/produce/record/distribute their own music, the dj seems to have taken credit for all that work).

in the art world, having taste and vision of how to present other people's work is generally called a curator, or an agent...both of which are creative processes, but neither of which are "mediums in which to practice art" (ie, you never hear the following conversation):

Quote:
"i'm an artist"
"oh, what kind, what is your medium"
"i'm a curator"


...yet somehow, dj's have become artists? i saw it happen (when that "awsome" track played over the sound system was credited as the "work" of the dj who bought the record and put the needle down, instead of the producer that wrote, performed, and had it published/distributed)....but i always find myself rubbing my eyes and not believing what i am seeing. my sister likes fancy purses...is being a good "shopper for purses" as artistic as being a "good record shopper"? perhaps she should get up on stage and hold up one purse after another in an artistic sequence Smile

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

legal dude no.1 wrote:
In the world of hip-hop few music executives have more influence than DJ
Drama. His “Gangsta Grillz” compilations have helped define this decade’s
Southern rap explosion.


"Southern" eh? Rolling Eyes

Hot-dang! Nice to see that the KKK working closely with the State Police Alliance are still good and strong in those Southern counties Shocked Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

...does this mean that we are going to start calling our german friends "nazis" because they are german? really, what are you trying to get at? what is the point of throwing the kkk around simply because something happens in the south? i don't get it.

deknow
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

trivia: i know an influential electronic musician who grew up in jacksonville fl (which is _very_ far south). i'm pretty certain that he is not a member of the kkk.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This post is getting hilarious. Laughing

deknow wrote:
one of the points made today was "it's important to strive to bring ones practice up to the ideal...and not to lower the ideal to match the practice". for some reason, this is what seems to have happened (and at exactly the same time that it became possible for one person to write/produce/record/distribute their own music, the dj seems to have taken credit for all that work).


I like this rationale a lot. Certainly this applies to mixtapes, but unfortunately, this nugget of wisdom his harder to apply to sample usage. Oh, and what about mash-ups? These definitely cannot be sold, as they are (sometimes) very clever combinations of two popular songs, but I think people who make them and put them online for free will still get the smackdown from the authorities. That's a shame. To me, it's just satire.

Anyway, I find it hard to believe that anyone here would agree that using single drum hits from vinyl or looped single notes from a live recorded instrument in their own original song makes them just a "curator." This is where it gets really hard for non-musical, 800-year-old judges to determine what can and can't be used in a song.

I like the purse analogy, by the way. Very Happy

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

deknow wrote:
...does this mean that we are going to start calling our german friends "nazis" because they are german? really, what are you trying to get at? what is the point of throwing the kkk around simply because something happens in the south? i don't get it.


This is pointless european irony. It is always better to blame some evil conspiracy than actually accept the fact that you were locked up for something like copyright infringement and whatnot. Laughing

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
deknow wrote:
...does this mean that we are going to start calling our german friends "nazis" because they are german? really, what are you trying to get at? what is the point of throwing the kkk around simply because something happens in the south? i don't get it.


This is pointless european irony. It is always better to blame some evil conspiracy than actually accept the fact that you were locked up for something like copyright infringement and whatnot. Laughing


Too right Laughing

I tell you, they're infiltrating my brain! Need thicker silver foil Shocked Laughing
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
I tell you, they're infiltrating my brain! Need thicker silver foil Shocked


You might wanna call my supplier. Good stuff.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

...i suppose this attitude is to be expected from a brit....imperial asperations, warm beer, and all that (actually, i like warmer beer than is the fashon in the states, but i was suprised when i went clubbing in london 10 or so years ago that budweiser was popular...go figure).

as far as the foil goes, you should buy it from _me_. it's not cheap (about $200 a roll), but it's cleverly disguised as a box of renyolds wrap so the aliens in the post office won't confiscate it Smile

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This whole controversy is happening in my back yard, I live in Atlanta. Now everyone here know knows it copyright infringement and its illegal and you should get locked up or fined.

The real controversy is that these DJ's and record companies had a certain understanding like if you put my new artist on one of these mix tapes I (the record company) will turn my back to the fact that you are copyright infringing. So it worked out record companies got promotion and the DJs got songs to put in their mix.

A lot of Hip/Hop artists got their start like this. (Even metallica go their start by mixtapes) But the thing thats cause the big controversy is that the record companies just broke their promise. The RIAA arrested two of the biggest DJ's in Atlanta.

So now the DJs and record companies relationship has soured. I think the RIAA should focus on making better music than distroying relationships with the public. Also you can't stop the mixtapes b/c every Tom, Dick, Sue and Harry that have a computer and cheap audio software are making them. Instead of fighting this giant monster use it to your advantage.

Also the KKK no longer has a strong hold in georgia, just a few cells hiding out in the mountains and areas outside of Atlanta. <--- Temple, GA they own a gas station that sells lawn nomes dressed as klans men. Funny and extremely scarey at the same time. Shocked

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

...i don't know the history of metalica, but they did not get their start by selling mix tapes of other people's music (perhaps they did some covers? i dunno). they (and/or their label) is entitled to encourage the use of their songs on mixtapes if they like, but if someone sold 10million copies of a mixtape of metalica tunes through amazon, i guarantee that they would go after them for a piece of it.

it's very easy to have a written agreement, even if it's not in leagalese...and if 2 parties can agree to something, and either party does not want to put it in writing, it means that they do not want to have to hold up their end.

i can certainly imagine a handshake deal that one party will put another parties music on a mixtape, and it benefits both parties.....but it's easy to make an agreement that, for instance, they have license to use the material on 500 copies of a mixtape (or 50,000)....then there is no ambiguity, and no one is violating another persons rights by doing what they agreed upon.

we are currently going through something like this with our band. a small boutique label wants to rerelease a cd of ours, and wanted to make the deal on a handshake. i absoluetely refused this, it has to be in writing. otherwise, if money ends up on the table, everyone is going to want it. it has to be clear that they are licensed to print so many copies, what constitutes an expense ("oh, i had to take a trip to japan to promote your cd"), and that they are not able to relicense to a soundtrack or compilation. if it's not in writing, when/if there is money, a judge will have to sort out "he said, she said". one of the band members (who should know better) said, "it's a tradition in the indie music world to do things on a handshake"...my reply was "it's also a tradition for indie lables to screw artists".

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
v-un-v wrote:
I tell you, they're infiltrating my brain! Need thicker silver foil Shocked


You might wanna call my supplier. Good stuff.

you force me to resurrect the thread about the Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie (AFDB)

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


Shocked

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uh... behave! Cool
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Uh... behave! Cool

I am not the local J. Stalin, if you know what I mean Cool
those 3 digit threads way back in 2003...

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Beria, I just knew you would check your answering machine


..yeah.. we know what you mean.. Laughing

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

deknow wrote:
actually, i like warmer beer than is the fashon in the states, but i was suprised when i went clubbing in london 10 or so years ago that budweiser was popular...go figure).


Yeah. Bit of a weird paradox that. America is going nuts over our beloved ale, while all we have on offer anymore is that 'tasteless piss' that is 'brewed' by you! Laughing

Go figure?!? Heck! American Budweiser even claim that their brewery has been going 10 years longer than the Czech equivalent (I shouldn't really use the word 'equivalent' as Czech Budvar is >devine< compared to its yankee 'counterpart') Confused So how old is the USA? Rolling Eyes

AND, what the hell is "fresh beer" supposed to mean???!??!?? Confused Confused Confused Laughing "Fresh Frozen" is what Gil Scott Heron once rightly asked, in that, ahem, hip-hop track he did back in the early eighties.......
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