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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
my lunetta project
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amplex



Joined: May 26, 2008
Posts: 64
Location: sacramento, ca
Audio files: 6

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 3:41 pm    Post subject: my lunetta project Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so, i have dabbled around for quite awhile and collected enough parts to start a lunetta.. the theme is no frills, no lights, all patchable random music/sound generator. I am planning to use a cd-rom bolt patchbay from a circuitbending project gone bad (rip DD5 =[).. basically a painted (so the bolts arent grounded out) shell of an old cdr with holes drilled and 48 bolts screwed into the top, 8 reserved for the 4 100meg pots that i am planning on being the main 4 clock speeds (but also patchable). so i am planning on running 4 pitchable clocks on a 40106, and a separate 40106 vco a la YAVCO (and possibly a 555 vco, would this be overkill for a small melody machine?) and other than that i dont have anything nailed down except a 741 r2r ladder for a dac. 9v battery will be the only power source (hopefully)..

i want to emphasize that i really want to keep this as simple as possible, i was thinking of starting with the 4017->4051 melody generator, i have plenty of other common 4xxx series cmos to mess with, let me know which ones you would include as essential!

a list of supplies i currently have for my (mostly) lunetta project:

4001 x2
4011 x2
4013 x4
4017 x3
4024 x3
4029 x2
4030 x2
4040 x3
4051 x3
4069 x2
4070 x2
4094 x3
40106 x45

555 x12
lm741 x10
tl072 x10
lm7805 x1

8pin dip switch x3

any tips, suggestions, or things to avoid? again i only have 48 patchable bolts and i want to make the most of them (i have plenty of alligator clip jumpers and they are stackable =]) im also thinking of running 4 non-tunable clocks right off the board (off another 40106) to alligator clips (cut 2 in half =) to relieve the need to patch them from a bolt.. then i guess i could hardwire the pots to the other 4 for tunable clocks, any more 'space-saving' ideas like this?

thanks to everyones valuable information on this wonderful and creatively encouraging synth (and especially Mosc for reviving this beautiful idea)!!!!!!
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Definitely build at least 1 4017/4051 Melody Generator, if you're into 'melodies'/sequences. I've got 2 of them running in my system and I'm absolutely loving them. Smile

Another wonderful module is the 8 bit R-2R DAC, modulating a VCO. Wonderful melody variations come from that setup!

I noticed you don't have any CD4015's. (4 bit Shift Register). This is another wonderful tool for creating functions that occur, depending on what data is pumped into it, at what clock timing. I have 4 of these in my system. I often connect at least 2 of them together in series, to make an 8 bit. The tune that I uploaded yesterday, had 3 of them hooked up in series as a 12 bit.

You DO have the 4094 though, so at least you DO have 1 Shift Register (it being the 8 bit).

You're limited to 48 bolts though. Aiyyeeeeeeee. (To me - that's way to few, but then - I like having as many things patchable as possible, in my noise machine and my normal modular.)

First off - get some 40106 oscillators and at least 1 4017/4051 mel.gen. That'll get you making tunes, right away. Smile

If you had a 4023 triple input NAND, you could build 1 of my Pulse Width Oscillators. (This COULD be emulated, with 3 x 2 input NAND Gates. Somewhat a waste of a chip though, when you can get 2 x PWOsc's and a triple input NAND, from 1 chip.)

Many very helpful people here. Smile You're in good company.
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amplex



Joined: May 26, 2008
Posts: 64
Location: sacramento, ca
Audio files: 6

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

First off, thanks for all your input Ryk!! I've read most (if not all) of your posts here on the Lunetta forum and they are always very informative and have helped me tremendously in understanding all this stuff!

Definitely doing the melody generator after my 40106 row.. Right now I decided to do 3 tuneable clocks off the first one, 3 fixed clocks (800, 1.5k, 3.2k resistors between the in/out) on another 40106, and the last is going to be the YAVCO VCO, w/ cv input (my first bolt lol). I am planning on grounding all unused inputs as well on these chips..

I will definitely work on the Melody generator next, I have enough for 3 of these, but was thinking of just one for this setup (quick project) but I will probably make 2 for a modular lunetta I am planning later on.

An 8bit R/2R would probably be overkill for this small of a setup.. 8bit means you can have 8 signals 'mixed down (up numerically?)' to analog right? I think with my limited number of connections I will just make a simple 5bit DA with resistors (fits a row of bolts hehe). I already got a bunch of 10k/20k per the simplest R2R design i found, but now I'm reading that others have used 500k/1m and 480k/1m .. will 10/20 work decently or no? Also, do I need diodes on the inputs for the R/2R ladder with a LM741CN? I know very little about how this works, other than it combines binary signals to form an analog signal (CV for driving VCO etc).. How useful is the 4051 as a CV generator?

I will grab a few 4015 & 4023's tomarrow and hopefully throw one of each in this thing for some real magic =D
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amplex



Joined: May 26, 2008
Posts: 64
Location: sacramento, ca
Audio files: 6

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so i got my 3 variable oscs and the VCO done on my 40106 row, working no problems, but fixed oscs are not making any sound at all (listening to the outputs with MFOS listening tool plugged into an amp). i will get out my VO meter and see if i can see any problems in the circuit.. i grounded all unused inputs and everything else is fine.. this circuit is identical to the one to the left of it, but instead of pots to control the pitch/speed, they are low resistors. since the resistors are odd values (800, 1.5k, 3.2k) i was thinking they will do something of interest when run as slow clocks to other chips? in other words, are they gonna be useful at all at this value? or would i be better off cutting these guys and putting in something starting around 100k to get higher (or is it lower) frequencies?

or is my resistance on these 40106 gates so low that the outputs are outside of audible range (i.e signal too high to hear)?? I noticed that with 1meg pots my 40106 have a lower range than 555 oscillators, i.e 2/3 of the way up it doesnt output anything audible anymore. im using .01uf caps to ground off each used input, then grounding each unused input, in all 3 circuits. are my fixed resistors for the middle circuit just too low?
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droffset



Joined: Feb 02, 2009
Posts: 486
Location: new zealand
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I like your concept of keeping it simple, you might want to have a play with the 4040 IC, I use it to break a rapid 555 clock down into a nice pallete of tempos to modulate other things with.
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amplex



Joined: May 26, 2008
Posts: 64
Location: sacramento, ca
Audio files: 6

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks, ill have to try that, so i have a range of clocks to mess with and a vco, and a melody generator. but when i listen to the output of the melody generator (4017 pin 3) with a clock connected, and the clock enable is connected to the clock as well (is this right?) i hear a series of slow pops to a really fast noisy signal! i am thinking that the series of slow pops is what i want to hear, as i have not connected this to a r/2r ladder to convert this 'output' to audio frequencies? should i be able to hear a melody from it like this (no r/2r ladder)? everything i get out of it so far seems to be mostly an unchanging note with a few very fast stutters here and there.. unless i hook up the clock enable along with the clock input of 4017 to a 40106 osc (the variable ones, the fixed ones make a high pitched noise, too low of resistors i think)..

i can also set up my 3 variable clocks to the 3 inputs of 4051 and patch a fixed (slow?) clock to 4017 clock+clock enable and get a 3 note major chord, with no movement except for controlling the clocks with the pots.. is this thing going so fast that it sounds like a solid note(chord)?

right now i am patched from 3 fixed (low resistance) oscs to the 4051 inputs, output of the 4017 pin3 going to VCO CV in, and no clocks attached to the 4017, and im getting a timed sequence out of it, but its emitting the same pitch every note.. im guessing something im doing here is wrong or im missing my r2r ladder to translate the speed of the blips to seperate pitches =]

any input appreciated!! at least im having fun trying to sort out whats going on in the signal =]
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RF



Joined: Mar 23, 2007
Posts: 1493
Location: Northern Minnesota, USA
Audio files: 28

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey amplex - nice to see you are building!
I can't wait to start hearing more people's machines bleeping and sputtering Smile

I think you want the output of the melody generator running into a VCO.
If you hook up a voltmeter to the output of the melody generator and measure it against ground you should see a moving voltage....

The R/2R is well worth the building. Even if you just run your clocks into it, and the output to a VCO you can get a wide variety of good stuff.
It gets very cool when you start using shift registers and running the various outputs into the R/2R.

You've got a great start - keep on!

bruce

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amplex



Joined: May 26, 2008
Posts: 64
Location: sacramento, ca
Audio files: 6

PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 12:15 pm    Post subject: thing sounds ratty and bad Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well this morning im still sorting out exactly what the melody gen is actually doing..

i know that the clock feeds the divide by 10 4017, which seperates the clock into 10 timed individual pulses on each decoded output,

then the 4051 is taking 3 clocks on pins 11, 10, 9 and the inputs from the 4017 pulse outputs, and doing what with these im not really sure (switching them on and off at an even different rate?).. still unclear if its gating the 8 ins/outs and sending that back to the 4017, or what is really going on between these 2 chips.. a picture is emerging but still kind of vague when it comes to the 4051 part. ive read the sea-moss and deathlehem information over and over trying to get this.. im an ex programmer and understand logic, binary, oscillation, bipolar (bidirectional) current flows, but how they relate to this circuit is still somewhat of a mystery..

looks like the output on pin3 of 4017 is emitting a solid 1.0v (oscillating really fast so it looks like just 1v?)

my only question is, im wondering why the reset pin (15) of 4017 is tied to the common pin (3) of 4051? would the reset be sending a voltage out? i thought it reset when it received a voltage, didnt know it was sending a small voltage out

update: I just tested my 9v battery and im showing a voltage of 2.6v!@# the operational range of these chips is at least 3v amiright? so i replaced it with a 9v with 5v left, and after a minute or two it drained the thing down to 1.5v.. when i remove the battery and retest it unhooked its up to 3.5v, is this normal behavior with older batteries? time to grab a few 9v today..

battery is down to 1.5v, and rapidly declining, you can hear it in the output (tone descending slowly) hrm.. is this just a bad battery situation?

so many questions!! sorry im such a noob but i dont feel confident in my knowledge yet, wish i had an electronics buddy that i could call and ask these kind of things but im pretty antisocial irl and dont get out much, and I am the biggest electronics geek out of all my computer friends (not so much, just a hobbyist @ best) =]] plus i feel like its almost better to learn things by trial and error than just having every answer 'given' to you, although that can be a huge time-saver.. doesn't stop me from trying =P

at least i finally have some sounds for you on what this thing is doing.. doesnt sound like the rest of the lunetta sound patterns to me, not much of a pattern, sounds like a broken atari punk console kinda =] another thing, the output seems to be low, about -18db so i normalized to -3db, turn it down a bit, dont blow your speakers/monitors... enjoi

alex


051409 lunetta proj 1st recording melody generator.MP3
 Description:
first recording of cdr bolt patchbay lunetta (still on perfboard with alligator clip connections), bad bad bad

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 Filename:  051409 lunetta proj 1st recording melody generator.MP3
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RF



Joined: Mar 23, 2007
Posts: 1493
Location: Northern Minnesota, USA
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey alex - I steered you wrong.
I was thinking it was a 'different' melody generator you were using. Wink

Run and audio rate clock or the output of an oscillator into pin 14 - the clock input. Then pin 3 goes right to an amp.

The 4017 produces divisions of your input frequency, and the 4051 selects which of the divisions are routed to the output

This is a very cool circuit - you will like it. Sorry for the confusion.

bruce

_________________
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"I want to make these sounds that go wooo-wooo-ah-woo-woo.”
(Herb Deutsch to Bob Moog ~1963)
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amplex



Joined: May 26, 2008
Posts: 64
Location: sacramento, ca
Audio files: 6

PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 4:52 pm    Post subject: clock rates working Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RF- Were you referring to a 4040->4051 'sequencer' like on the sea-moss page? im thinking of trying one of those on breadboard next.. want to get this functioning properly first.. (im starting to think that it is functioning just right i just am running clocks that are way too fast into it . im going to setup a little 40106 to the right on this breadboard and test different resistor sizes until i can find something that makes a lunettaish sound..)

i just built the 4017-4051 melody generator again on breadboard and patched my oscs in (seperate batteries, brand new) and am getting about the same results. (with the same 1m pot/fixed resistor 800/1.5k/3.2k setup) sounds like a single note pretty much, or 3note chord at best.

WOOOOTEN I just decided to build the 40106 on the breadboard, and tried my 3 clocks with 1m pots, then used different pots (500ohm, 10k, 100k) for the main clock (4017 pin 14) and found that a 100k got me to the higher audio frequencies where notes were more discernable and (from what i have heard from others') lunetta-like. and felt much better when i started hearing a 12,0,3,3,7,3,7,3 (semitones) pattern out of it (like an e minor sequence) with the pots down sounds like its doing what its supposed to!! =DD SO STOKED! im gonna start building everything on breadboard first, such a vital step in finding the right components, the only reason i havent been lately is because i have this ht8950 voice modulator circuit on my breadboard that ive been meaning to move to perfboard but dont want to re-interpret the schematics (lazy) =P but i picked up a couple more breadboards today and it was the best purchase i've made in awhile =] heres a quick clip of what i came up with..

now to change the values of my fixedosc resistors to something more like 50k, 100k, 220k, (think i will use these in parallel with low resistors since i hate desoldering =) i think this will put me in that audio range for more interesting results. then after a quick test with a 100k pot swap, its on to another logic chip playground on the breadboard!! can't wait to get a broader patchable sound from it!! maybe i will try a 4017 subdivider next..


051409 lunetta proj 3 melody generator breadboard 100k clock shorter.MP3
 Description:
1meg pots on 3 4051 clocks, 100k pot on 4017 clock WORKS

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 Filename:  051409 lunetta proj 3 melody generator breadboard 100k clock shorter.MP3
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droffset



Joined: Feb 02, 2009
Posts: 486
Location: new zealand
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There it is, congrats!
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amplex



Joined: May 26, 2008
Posts: 64
Location: sacramento, ca
Audio files: 6

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 11:55 am    Post subject: final product Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well yesterday I finally put the finishing touches on my 1st lunetta!! First off, recommendation to all noobs trying to do a bolt patch bay.. do NOT use a metal container that you drilled the holes in yourself =]] My final plan with the CDrom patchbay was to paint the thing after drilling (already done awhile ago for a failed circuit bend), then use electric tape on both sides of the holes (and even wrap the bottom of the bolt in thin plastic which doubles as a lock for the nut). This was SO much extra work to use a container I already had, which was NOT worth the extra couple hours (with only 50 bolts!!!).. Huge waste of time! Just go with plastic or a wood box!! I had spent a few hours putting the bolts in only to find out (surprise) that only 4/50 bolts were not grounded out by the box. So, I ran out to big lots and foudn a plastic Sterilite 6qt bin for $3.00 with a plastic lid. A little bigger than I wanted but it had plenty of room inside and for the front panel. And the big lots guy ended up only charging me $1.00 or so for it!!

So I bring it home, recharge my drill, then go into word and start a front panel cover. Awhile ago I picked up some full page labels from officemax for $10 or so, and with word I just made a table that was 5 cols x 12 rows as I had about 50 bolts and 4 pots. The thing turned out alright so I stuck it on and drilled my holes. (Note to self, next time use a template taped on for drilling, then line up the label with that after! But it came out fine though really..)

So my final setup for this rig was 3 40106 Var Clocks, 3 40106 fixed clocks, a 40106 vco, 4017->4051 melody generator, 4024 divider, 4094 shift reg, 4030 quad 2chan XOR, and an R2R ladder. I put a power switch on the left and the VCO output (1/4" out) on the right. The thing churns electrons and speaks in (electro)tounges!!!! I'm loving it, patching away with my small collection of alligator cables (only got 8 plus a piece of wire atm =).. I love the glitchy tones I get out of it!! I was up til 3am last night cranking out the glitch and experimenting with patches. Even with 5 basic (modules), you can get an endless amount of sounds!!! I'm loving every second of it =] I accidently recorded for an hour last night

The things I would change for the next one:

make CLOCKS that are more useful. Try to get a wide range. I would want better ranged ones such as LFOs .1-5hz, subs 10-100hz, midlow 100-1000hz, mid-high 1000-10khz, maybe 1 or 2 very high/noise 10k-100k. with all the chips in the world the thing is not gonna do what you want without the clock you want for that chip (for intentional patches @ least). I really was going for a talker/noodler (slower clocks .8hz or so i think is what you want for this which I don't really have without some patch-work). Clock speeds are VITAL!!!!

I didnt use an opamp in my R2R ladder, just used precision 1% resistors 499k/1m, and patched the output straight through. It works, but the Lower bytes in the ladder are VERY quiet. An opamp might fix this, or else an onboard CV based compressor would be nice.

My clocks have a little bleed, maybe you can get rid of this by stableizing a little more (not sure?), or in worst case scenario use a chip per clock (waste, I know, maybe not so bad for a 555..) ALSO add power starves to these =D

4040-4051 seq or 4017 Baby Seq to get the thing REALLY talking with control voltages. I thought the melody generator would really be playing some abstract sequences but (and this is just my bad clock problem) I couldn't regenerate what I had on the breadboard for some reason with the melody gen. I realized later I had used capacitors for my oscs that were off by a level of 10x. (.01uf instead of .1uf!!) so this is what caused my clock problem. So everything is working but its just way too fast. I have plenty of caps to fix it I just havent yet because I was excited to have the thing going finally and have been patching/playing.

I would add a VCF or pot driven filter of some kind, although the YAVCO VCO weight pot really works like a filter when low/feedback when high type of thing. REALLLLY recommend this YAVCO VCO, so simple, so useful!! And I would suggest putting at least 2 VCO's and a mixer onboard (stereo preferably), very useful for multitimbral stuff.

I want to add a patchable ribbon controller to this thing as well to 'play' around with some of the frequencies, I got a couple kits from Paia for $.33 apiece (MakeBlog offer) to DIY but haven't played with them yet as I've been consumed by this lunetta. You can do these cheap and easy, would be nice to be able to put in series with a clock pot or something.

I really like the bolts and think its the cheapest patchable setup you can get, and flexible!! I can stack alligator clips forever by pulling the plastic protectors up off them, for WAY cheaper than the price of stackable banana plugs/jacks (from what I've seen so far). This is way cool for a lunetta. I'll do at least one more lunetta like this before I start a modular project as my intro to DIY modular synths, as its so cheap, and looks cool too >=D Plus you can use solid core wire if you run out of cables Smile Another thing I noticed yesterday (unless this was coincedince) that when I moved my hand close (within 4 inches) of one of the cables, it affected the sound!! Really interesting. sometimes when you ground out the clocks too it affects the sound (i think this is the clock bleed problem)

I won't waste time labeling every lead on the board again, especially because labels don't like to stick to wire and half fell off anyway.

All in all I've spent 30-40 hours on this thing although more than half was spent researching ideas on the PC, downloading datasheets, and buying parts. Not too bad, could have done it in 24 hours easy if I had more experience or could just print out what I need, shut down the computer and GO. Soldering time was only about 4-5 hours really. I used one solder tip and nearly 100ft of solid core wire though! But parts wise the whole thing cost about $40 or less, and this is considering where I bought some stuff online (shipping) and @ radio shack, if you go with the cheapest source for everything, maybe $25 =]

Here are a few pics of this thing and a couple sound clips. All in all this has been a great experience, I've had a lot of fun, and got a lot of great ideas in the process!! I would rate this project as 10/10 even for electronics noobs. It doesn't get much simpler than this folks, great beginner project, cool to hear what logic 'sounds like', and great fun for audio tweakers to get some interesting tones/textures/patterns =D

Thanks to everyone on here for your help, input, suggestions, and Most of all, for keeping this idea alive and growing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111one1high


amplex Lunetta CDROM.JPG
 Description:
this was the cdrom patchbay, didnt work, prob killed my dd-5 =[ (also in the background is my custom A/B monitor box with headphone outs & volume =D)
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amplex Lunetta CDROM.JPG



PICT0040.JPG
 Description:
Lunetta in its new home, much happier.
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PICT0040.JPG



amplex Lunetta1 Newbox.JPG
 Description:
patched up lunetta, this one was so cool i had to take a picture to remember it.
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amplex Lunetta1 Newbox.JPG



PICT0033.JPG
 Description:
my baby from the side, yeah I should probably mount the board somehow but its fine really. I duct taped the 9v to the other side of the box =d And the sad thing is I have 9v clips just really couldn't wait to play with it some more =]
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PICT0033.JPG



051809 LUNETTA1 NEWCASE ITWORKS!!!!! 3m40.MP3
 Description:
dry first recording of reboxed lunetta finished (pretty much)! this one gets melodically happy at about 1:19 imo, cool sequence, i dont find the cool edits on the patch til towards the end, but still cool noodling =] it uses everything in the box

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 Filename:  051809 LUNETTA1 NEWCASE ITWORKS!!!!! 3m40.MP3
 Filesize:  5.95 MB
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amplex



Joined: May 26, 2008
Posts: 64
Location: sacramento, ca
Audio files: 6

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 1:29 pm    Post subject: couple more audio clips Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nothin too complicated, just havin fun Very Happy


051809 LUNETTA2 3m.MP3
 Description:
one of my first patches, doesnt really change much til the end which is only playing with VCO weight, but kind of glitchy patterns

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 Filename:  051809 LUNETTA2 3m.MP3
 Filesize:  4.12 MB
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051909 LUNETTA3 melgen 4024 4094 r2r.MP3
 Description:
sounds like an angry goose getting angrier, and more robotic. then joining in is a swarm of nanobugs, and the chase is on!@#

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 Filename:  051909 LUNETTA3 melgen 4024 4094 r2r.MP3
 Filesize:  4.35 MB
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051909 LUNETTA4 stairway to highven.MP3
 Description:
kinda got an electro-hardcore vibe to it, kinda sounds like a circuitbent sequencer or something..

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 Filename:  051909 LUNETTA4 stairway to highven.MP3
 Filesize:  2.93 MB
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slacker



Joined: Nov 18, 2007
Posts: 301
Location: England
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That looks and sounds really great, nice work Smile

I like the bolt idea, you're right about the price of banana stuff, the cables and sockets are by far the most expensive part of my Lunetta.
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RF



Joined: Mar 23, 2007
Posts: 1493
Location: Northern Minnesota, USA
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

amplex Exclamation
Awesome post - thanks for sharing your experience. I don't know that anyone could read that and not get enthused about a Lunetta project Laughing

You are getting some good sounds. I know how easy it is to get caught up patching and loosing track of time...these things will do that to you.

You mentioned some interaction between clocks - yea, I get some of that also. You can probably get rid of some of it by throwing bypass caps at it. I did that on a couple circuits, but eventually just decided to call it free bonus modulation and live with it.

In one of his first posts, mosc mentions grounding patch cords to the front of his machine. I have had some great success with that, and have gotten some wild sounds by just grabbing the patch cord end.
You might consider putting a small grounded plate on the front, or maybe adding just a 'patch-bolt' that is grounded.

Starve pots will do strange and wonderful things - explore that!

Anyway - great job. It's looking and sounding great and you have a unique instrument. I look forward to hearing more from you!

bruce

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droffset



Joined: Feb 02, 2009
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Awesome, great job! Smile

I like the bolt idea also, might try that on my next one, even less expensive than the bullet quick connectors.

Keep an eye out for packs of aligator clip leads on the auction sites, found a guy here that sells packs of 10 pretty cheap, I use them too for Lunetta patching.

Solid core wire is awesome too.
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Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I wonder if I could use really teeny little bolts on the eChucK-Lunetta board? That's GOT to be the cheapest solution out there short of soldering the wires in place. How small do they make little bolts anyway? 4-40 would be too big, or would it? This would be for attaching solid wire, not alligator clips.
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
sounds like an angry goose getting angrier, and more robotic. then joining in is a swarm of nanobugs, and the chase is on!@#


Now I REALLY liked THAT one! Letting the sound suggest to the imagination what's going on and it's just a war! Very Happy The Goose starts freaking out, fighting for it's poor life, but feathers a fly and the goose do die ....... them damn little nanobugs! Surprised

Very cool to read about your progress as well! Smile
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monokinetic



Joined: Aug 01, 2006
Posts: 100
Location: prague

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

amplex:
great work and super write up! It's got me champing at the bit for my exams to finish on Friday so I finally can get my Lunetta boxed up.

all:
as a matter of interest I'd like to ask about boxes and rf/emi etc in Lunetta land. amplex has used a plastic box by the looks of it, I know someone else (DGtom?) is using perspex for panels. Do you think there is a risk of radio interference etc? I ask because WizardMike recommended in another thread that if I'm going to use perspex then everything must be grounded. But Lunetta front panel stuff doesn't use a ground (hence the abundance of bananas!). Currently my stripboard circuits all seem to function fine without unwanted interference without any box, but I've not tried it close to computer/TV/fridge/pylons yet Smile

Do you think I can get away with a plastic or wooden box, using bolts ala amplex with ground for the circuits coming from the PSU? (i.e. +9v and ground)?

David
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RF



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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would expect you'll be just fine unless you are living next door to a high powered broadcast station. The CMOS voltage levels are a several orders of magnitude above what you are likely to see from RFI.

I suppose an exception to that might be if you include any fairly high gain audio amplifiers in your device. Even then, with common sense grounding and bypassing - you shouldn't have any problems.

I look forward to seeing and hearing the fruit of your labor!

bruce

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monokinetic



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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hiya Bruce,
Thanks for the reply Smile

I know that you know your transmitters so that puts my mind at rest!

David
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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

monokinetic wrote:


all:
as a matter of interest I'd like to ask about boxes and rf/emi etc in Lunetta land. amplex has used a plastic box by the looks of it, I know someone else (DGtom?) is using perspex for panels. Do you think there is a risk of radio interference etc? I ask because WizardMike recommended in another thread that if I'm going to use perspex then everything must be grounded. But Lunetta front panel stuff doesn't use a ground (hence the abundance of bananas!). Currently my stripboard circuits all seem to function fine without unwanted interference without any box, but I've not tried it close to computer/TV/fridge/pylons yet Smile

Do you think I can get away with a plastic or wooden box, using bolts ala amplex with ground for the circuits coming from the PSU? (i.e. +9v and ground)?

David


This request has actually triggered an idea! Twisted Evil

I remember from my normal modular, using unshielded test lead cable, for all of my patch cables, that the longer the cable is, the better the chances are of picking up external frequencies.

THAT makes me wonder if a long enough cable could be used to function as an ANTENNA, to bring IN external sounds, to the noise machine??? Very Happy

Anyone? Hanging the cable up in the air or near a radio or TV or something, to pull in frequencies from abroad? Would the extra long cable have to go into an 'amplifier' to amplify what it picks up?

Twisted Evil

It'd be fun, me thinks, to abuse whatever could be 'hijacked' out of the air. Wink
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RF



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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Antenna (the longer the better) , small signal diode, wire coil, Earth ground connection - not very tunable but it'll sure pick up noise/AM radio stations/hash/flourescent lamp nasties and glitches every time someone turns a light on or off in the area.

bruce


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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RF wrote:
Antenna (the longer the better) , small signal diode, wire coil, Earth ground connection - not very tunable but it'll sure pick up noise/AM radio stations/hash/flourescent lamp nasties and glitches every time someone turns a light on or off in the area.

bruce


Ahhhhh! So - with me barely knowing a single thing about antennas, could I just rip one from a stereo amp that I've scrapped, plop that in place of the coil in the diagram, along with the diode and bring things in? Or would I need a coil that I need to tune across??

Confused Shocked Smile
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RF



Joined: Mar 23, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Rich!
The antenna should be the longest random length wire you can live with.
The coil can be enamel wire wound around a cardboard tube (of course the traditional one is the Quaker Oatmeal variety) but you can get by with something smaller at the expense of any semblance of tune-ability.

You can 'tap' the coil by experimenting at various points using an alligator clip. You are just trying to find the loudest signal/most noise. Solder it in place, or leave several points on the coil available to attach the clip - depending on local radio conditions.

This circuit should pick up the strongest AM signal in your area - and all kinds of man-made noise.
(Don't get me started on what 'HD' radio has done to add hash to the AM broadcast band...)

This is like the minimum possible AM receiver - don't get your expectations too high. With some conditioning though, it might be an interesting .
source of random clock or switching pulses.

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