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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
4094 schematics?
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amplex



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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:16 am    Post subject:  4094 schematics? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

anyone have any schematics for the use of a 4094 8bit shift reg w/ storage? from the xTimer schematics via google it looks like its easily usable for a LED clock (maybe even its intended purpose originally?).. anyway I'm trying to decode what this chip actually does in plain english (so far I have shift and store registers (bits) and strobe function that 'replays' these bits??), seems like a very useful chip though, if i can figure out a good lunetta application especially!! gotta admit it gets really confusing with the EO, strobe, and serial outputs. i think i understand the basics of the chip.. basically at stage 0 the input (D) is latched, and outputs these registers (while EO is high) until the next D is received? im just thinking in terms of what youd want to do with an LED clock..

i see there are serial as well as parallel outputs, are these 2 4bit outs? this is where the picture gets muddy to me.. maybe ill just include this chip and patch every pin except ground and voltage+, although not knowing how it works exactly is gonna make it hard to use, but ups the randomness factor i guess..

how are people using this chip in a lunetta module?

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/17739/PHILIPS/HEF4094B.html

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I dunno Amplex, all I can say after a quick glance at the datasheet you linked us to is that it has a shift register that of course receives serial data and then a parallel storage register with trisitate output. But obviously you knew that since you said you understand it.

I've never seen the chip, but it looks really useful. Might be the basis for a sequencer of some type. Anyway, I attached the datasheet for everyone's convenience.


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RF



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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I use the 4094 a lot in my patches.
I think I have a drawing Tom Bugs did of using the 4094 in a Lunetta - when I get home I'll post it if I can find it.

It's pretty much the same drill for most chips - run the in and outs to front panel jacks. I have 100K resistors to ground on all my chip inputs. On outputs I generally have an LED with a resistor (from 10k to 47k) to ground. The visual indication is very helpful in seeing what these chips are doing. (and besides, we like blinky lights.)

If you need to hold something high or low to enable a function on the chip tie it to V+ or Ground with a 100K - or perhaps run it to a front panel switch or jack - or both.

Clock the inputs (Data, Strobe, Clock) from other chips outputs, or from 40106 clocks, or your VCO's...and use the various outputs of the 4094 to clock other clocks, or for input to an R/2R ladder - (which is a simple Digital to Analog converter) ..which you run to a VCO.

bruce

EDIT - The clip I posted last night in the Lunetta Sound thread uses 2 4094's to create many of the patterns, and for some of the inputs to the VCO control voltages. I probably used one or two outputs to the 4017/4051 melody generator, too. Like I said - I use these a lot in my patches.

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's Tom Bugs drawing for the 4094 that he posted publicly some time back....


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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bruce - are you using the Serial and Not-serial outs at all? Lemme know as I'll be building one of these soon. Smile
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droffset



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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I use this as well, but I'm still trynig to get the most from it. At the best of times the QS and QS* outs give me nice meaty bits. I think a high value on strobe releases the latched data? It's funny that i was studying that last night. Smile
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RF



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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rykhaard wrote:
Bruce - are you using the Serial and Not-serial outs at all?


Yep - Although not in any intelligent way. Like drofset - just like other outputs..except they are sometimes 'meatier' Laughing

I was thinking today after I first replied to this thread that I should try using them for cascading to the next 4094... I think that's what they are there for but I've never even tried that.

I had the switches Bugs suggested on the first Lunetta I built - but I left them off most recently. Have not miss them at all.

bruce

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amplex



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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sweet just what i was looking for .. another good bug circuit =D Somehow I did not have this one and searched on the 4094 a number of times on E-M and Google.. Thanks RF!!! I'll be implementing at least one of these tonight!
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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RF wrote:
Rykhaard wrote:
Bruce - are you using the Serial and Not-serial outs at all?


Yep - Although not in any intelligent way. Like drofset - just like other outputs..except they are sometimes 'meatier' Laughing


Could you do a direct sample example of this, to get the idea across? Smile

Quote:

I was thinking today after I first replied to this thread that I should try using them for cascading to the next 4094... I think that's what they are there for but I've never even tried that.


That makes sense actually. And the Not-Serial would be giving an inversion of the data which could be cool as well. Smile

Actually - what could be even cooler, is 2 MORE 4094s. 1 is fed the Serial, the other the Not-Serial and each of them are hard panned to opposite sides. That could be fun as well. Smile

Quote:

I had the switches Bugs suggested on the first Lunetta I built - but I left them off most recently. Have not miss them at all.

bruce


Now - these are then in your Lunetta 2.0, hard wired to Clock and Data? (Just wishing to make sure. After I do my next set of 14/16 pin chip templates) I'll finally be cooking one of these up. Smile

Thinking on that - I'll have to grab some on my next Digikey order as well, as my local supplier doesn't stock them. Sad
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droffset



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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Some thoughts:

-What constitutes data? Can that be thought of as a tone to modify? If not what makes it different from a clock?

-How is the latched data defined? (I think i just answered question 1, lol)

-I think Strobe releases a burst of the latched data, so is it possible to predictably define some bits to latch, then use a trigger to release it more than once?

-Seems like latches need a consistent input, does that make sense in a constantly cganging stream?

-Can you latch and strobe repeatedly for some kind of delay effect?
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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

droffset wrote:
Some thoughts:

-What constitutes data? Can that be thought of as a tone to modify? If not what makes it different from a clock?


Data can be a collection of 1's and 0's in any format / combination thereof. A clock can be data, yes. Rather regular and predictable though. With a Clock running the chip's Clock input and another clock running into the Data input, you're only going to get a predictable result. Razz

It's the same idea that I apply with my 4 x CD4015 4 Bit Shift Registers. I give them some more erratic data to spit out. That helps to give something that is changing more than the 4 bits that I get to play with, most of the time. (Unless I want a regular 2, 3 or 4 bit repeating pattern, that becomes modified elsewhere - the NAND Gate, is my friend! Wink )

Quote:

-How is the latched data defined? (I think i just answered question 1, lol)

-I think Strobe releases a burst of the latched data, so is it possible to predictably define some bits to latch, then use a trigger to release it more than once?

-Seems like latches need a consistent input, does that make sense in a constantly cganging stream?

-Can you latch and strobe repeatedly for some kind of delay effect?


This data sheet doth supremely say unto us:

"TheCD4094BC consists of an 8-bit shift register and a 2-STATE 8-bit latch. Data is shifted serially through the shift register on the positive transition of the clock. The output of the last state (Qs) can be used to cascade several devices. Data on the Qs output is transferred to a second output, Q's, on the folllowing negative clock edge.

The output of each stage of the shift register feeds a latch, which latches data on the negative edge of the STROBE input. When STROBE is HIGH, data propagates through the latch to 3-STATE output gates. These gates are enabled when OUTPUT ENABLE is taken HIGH."

And there we have it. Smile

So it looks like you possibly could repeat the data, by dropping the HIGH at the STROBE input to Ground, momentarily, if I'm understanding correctly.

I'll have to play with it and see what's up. Smile
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Heh, tell you what I would try to do with that chip. I'd slap a handful of krazy logic on the output pins and send it back into the shift register input. With the right logic it might make all kinds of bizzarre sounds. Tap any bit or the shift out for sound and see what happens...
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Les!
Do it!

I can tell you are right on the cusp of experiencing Lunetta nirvana...

bruce

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RF wrote:
Les!
Do it!

I can tell you are right on the cusp of experiencing Lunetta nirvana...

bruce


Bruce, I did it! In ChucK that is. See source code and mp3 file below. I don't have the chip but I do have ChucK, and there has been some talk about using ChucK to simulate Lunettas, so why not? It's late and I don't have much to do. Some notes on the program:

o At the top is the time_delta, this controls the frequency of the notes.

o To get something other than square wave output I added a high Q low-pass filter to the output. This is why it sounds so boinky...

o I used OOP so that the code for the chip is reusable in other programs.

o I'm not sure if the way that I did it is the best, but it seems to work.

o To get more complex patterns we could try chaining two of these chips together or changing the logic.

o You have to play with the logic to get any kind of meaningful output from it.

o Also I drove the LPF with a summing amp that adds up the bits of the chip output bus, gives a more variable tone.

Please feel free to comment as always! Cheers!

Les


4094_1.ck
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is a 16 bit version...

Les


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amplex



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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rykhaard wrote:
When STROBE is HIGH, data propagates through the latch to 3-STATE output gates. These gates are enabled when OUTPUT ENABLE is taken HIGH."


What does 3-state refer to? High, low, and latch data? or is there a mysterious 3rd state that I never knew about? Smile

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

amplex wrote:


What does 3-state refer to? High, low, and latch data? or is there a mysterious 3rd state that I never knew about? :)


The 3rd state is high impedance, or output switched off, meaning another output will be able to control that same line. Used for bus drivers and stuff when multiple devices must be able to send on that bus.

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, the tristate output does not appear to be overly useful here so I did not implement it in the ChucK simulation.
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