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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Bugs
NG2 modular bug, noise with reverb/delays and polyphonia
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filtr0



Joined: Jun 12, 2009
Posts: 1
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:03 pm    Post subject: NG2 modular bug, noise with reverb/delays and polyphonia
Subject description: very loud white noise coming from some patches
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OS synth > original one, i havent updated it

OS in PC > windows xp pro

OS editor > version 1.40

description of the problem

im getting a very loud noise when i use some patches, usually the white noise is caused by the combination of either a reverb and delay, or sometimes when the patch is in polyphonic mode. the noise stops usually when i either turn both the delay and reverb or when i turn off the polyphonic mode

example patch

i cannot reall upload one, because these even happens in some of the factory presets of the ng2 patch bank. it also happens on some other patches i downloaded.

im trying right to update the usb driver and synth os, hopefully its not a hardware problem...

please if someone knows about this or anything similar please contact me
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm .. still an example patch might be helpful here ... it could be a bug, or something odly patched ... hardly imaginable that it would be hardware problem with the synth.
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Chrono



Joined: May 18, 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i have the same, i believe its the input wich is too loud. the verber clips or something. Not really sure tough. You can also hear noise if you use a lowpass filter before a custom chorus on low cutoff frequencies.

I solved a little of that by using a custom chorus in the polyfonic section right after the osc's and route the rest in stereo. wich costs double filters but then there is no noise in the lower frequencies.
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jksuperstar



Joined: Aug 20, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm with Jan, there must be some example patch by now? If anyone needs help using the "Add Attachment" button below text editing window, let us know.
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Chrono



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ive made some examples Smile hope you can help with the issues.

Just use the filter cutoff in the noizy patch, and the Level Add with the Filter After patch.


i will try make a faulty reverb one as well, the thing i noticed with that , is that the Reverb has a random input overload or something. I dont know what it couses.


ChorusFilterError.mp3
 Description:
This fragment has the unwanted noise comming from the quad delay in the patch.

Download
 Filename:  ChorusFilterError.mp3
 Filesize:  445.84 KB
 Downloaded:  283 Time(s)


ChorusFilterAfter.mp3
 Description:
This one has the Filter after the QuadDelay in Stereo and you can hear the difference , but still some distortion is noticable on the lowest frequencies.

Download
 Filename:  ChorusFilterAfter.mp3
 Filesize:  276.86 KB
 Downloaded:  304 Time(s)


ChorusLoFilter.pch2
 Description:
the noizy patch

Download
 Filename:  ChorusLoFilter.pch2
 Filesize:  1.59 KB
 Downloaded:  598 Time(s)


ChorusLoFilterAfter.pch2
 Description:
Filter After patch

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 Filename:  ChorusLoFilterAfter.pch2
 Filesize:  1.86 KB
 Downloaded:  628 Time(s)

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varice



Joined: Dec 29, 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:25 pm    Post subject: mixer level is too high Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Chrono,

Looks like you have the patch level mixed too high which is causing clipping distortion on the main audio output bus. Try reducing the Master level of the stereo mixer module until there is no more distortion. Keep in mind that the output level meter in the VA section only shows the signal level of one voice, not the sum of all voices in a polyphonic patch.

Also, I have noticed that is very easy to overload the Reverb module. I usually just reduce the signal level on the module input to prevent clipping distortion.

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Chrono



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks i will try fix it Smile
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Chrono



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i've been balancing a lot with the volume clipping issue. It seems it needs a very subtle configuration on both nord and soundcard input. Also, a maximizer in cubase can fix unwanted clipping even tough it seems its not distorting through the cubase mixer at all.

cheers
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stiiiiiiive



Joined: Sep 21, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello guys.

So I've been looking at many G2 bugs topics lately. The reason is I've been undergoing a problem of dirty noise in my G2 for like 1-2 years now. It seems not to be the problem described earlier and I could find anything similar. Here is my analysis:

Symptom: loud crackling, like a spark in the circuit.

Conditions of observations:
- OS 1.62 or 1.4 without any difference.
- Seems to happen only with patches that include an activated delay and/or a reverb module. When toggling them off, bye bye (audible) cracklings!
- This is not systematic, i.e. it happens with several patches and a patch that crackled one day does not crackle every day.
- No need to plug the USB to hear it.

Hypotheses I've rejected yet:
- The well known USB problem.
- The quick built 1.62 OS. I've reinstalled 1.4, reinstalled Clavia's website banks. It crackled right again.
- My preamp pot does crackle in a certain area, around the max. I though my problem could be due to playing keys a bit too rough and making shake the pot. But no.

Hypotheses to explore:
- the very same input overload that was dealt with earlier. Though I'm not convinced it's the same one...
- ...?

Example:
- You can find an audio example right below.
- If some of you need the patch I was using when recording this, I can provide it.

Voilà.
If you guys have some ideas/answers, I will be the gladest to read them Smile


G2 delay crackes 111025_01.mp3
 Description:
This is a recording of the crackling problem I've been witnessing for 1-2 years now on my G2.

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 Filename:  G2 delay crackes 111025_01.mp3
 Filesize:  3.87 MB
 Downloaded:  178 Time(s)


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Lawx and Mowk
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

stiiiiiiive wrote:
- If some of you need the patch I was using when recording this, I can provide it.


I'd be interested to see it.

Funny thing is that I have some noodle thingie running now running in the demo version, it had some similar noise as your mp3 has and it has a delay and a reverb too ... I suspected my mixer, but could not really find it there.

I'll attach my patch, but I'm not sure in which variation it happens, if at all ... as its under external control for variation changes and putting some notes in too.

Edit : and it doesn't happen too often of course - the clicks BTW are well explained from the delay line modulation.


2011-10-28-01-08.pch2
 Description:
A noodle patch that may have some noise / crackling problems in it

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 Filename:  2011-10-28-01-08.pch2
 Filesize:  3.22 KB
 Downloaded:  414 Time(s)


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stiiiiiiive



Joined: Sep 21, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Jan, I'll download your noodle and test, just to compare the noises.

Here is a set of three patches which I'm sure they crackled once. "V buggy" is the one that I used for the formerly provided audio example. Though I changed some variations since then. Anyway it does not seems to change anything, except when turning off the delay.

It happens when changing variations, especially when loading a variation with some delay in it. I think var 3 and 7 have some.


G2 buggy patches.zip
 Description:
Three G2 patches that once did the horrible crackles. It sometimes happens when changing variations, especially when loading a variation with some delay in it

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 Filename:  G2 buggy patches.zip
 Filesize:  13.72 KB
 Downloaded:  126 Time(s)


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Lawx and Mowk
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Could also be a faulty RAM chip. Each DSP has its own RAM chip for delay-based stuff. You don't always notice something wrong - only when the patch that is allocated to the DSP with a faulty RAM chip uses some kind of delay-based thing (comb filter, delay, chorus, reverb etc.).

One way to test this is to create a performance and open up a 2.7 delay module in each VA and FX slot (total of 4 or 8 delays, depending on if your G2 is expanded or not), input some audio into each of them (eg. a simple sine oscillator) and listen to each output individually. If only one of the delay modules outputs crackles, then that is a sure sign of a defective RAM chip.

I had this problem once with a G2X i bought off eBay. Pitch stick was broken too. Evil or Very Mad
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stiiiiiiive



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Tim, I'll try this.

What did you do about this broken G2X?

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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

stiiiiiiive wrote:
What did you do about this broken G2X?

The defective RAM chip was on the expansion board. I bought a new one from Encore Electronics and swapped it. Tony from Encore Electronics however asked me if he could have a shot at repairing the defective expansion board. I sent it to him and he was indeed able to fix it. He sold it afterwards and gave me a share, which was very nice of him.

The pitch stick issue was just a loose solder joint.

So I eventually had four G2Xs all hooked up simultaneously in the studio. Those were the days... Laughing
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iPassenger



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tim wrote:
Could also be a faulty RAM chip. Each DSP has its own RAM chip for delay-based stuff. You don't always notice something wrong - only when the patch that is allocated to the DSP with a faulty RAM chip uses some kind of delay-based thing (comb filter, delay, chorus, reverb etc.).

One way to test this is to create a performance and open up a 2.7 delay module in each VA and FX slot (total of 4 or 8 delays, depending on if your G2 is expanded or not), input some audio into each of them (eg. a simple sine oscillator) and listen to each output individually. If only one of the delay modules outputs crackles, then that is a sure sign of a defective RAM chip.

I had this problem once with a G2X i bought off eBay. Pitch stick was broken too. Evil or Very Mad


I have on rare occasions had similar issues and have a niggling feeling I might have the same problem.. Random noise issues with delays. Sad Sad

Got to test this out.

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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Could also be this, although this phenomenon tend to be more subtle. The demo mp3 by the OP definetely sounds more nasty and has that typical cyclical thing going that makes me think it might be a defective RAM. My defective RAM chip produced hideous noise, but only when audio was being inputted, otherwise dead silent.
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iPassenger



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tim wrote:
Could also be this, although this phenomenon tend to be more subtle. The demo mp3 by the OP definetely sounds more nasty and has that typical cyclical thing going that makes me think it might be a defective RAM. My defective RAM chip produced hideous noise, but only when audio was being inputted, otherwise dead silent.


Ahh yeah it could be, seem to remember I tested it with no audio in, so could well be that then.. I'll do your test above and see what it does anyway.

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