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Breakdown Filter Module
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:23 am    Post subject: Breakdown Filter Module
Subject description: 8 VCFs stepper
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my latest built.

these are 8 multimode filters and a controller board.

the audio steps thru the 8 filters. each filter provides attenuation for external CV, cutoff, resonance, pan and mode. the controller provides external CV in, clock in, manual step, reset, manual reset, audio in, left out and right out.

why 8 filters instead of one filter? imagine you just use one filter and want to control different CV amount, mode (LP/BP/HP) and pan (L-R) for each step. how many VCAs, mixers and CV sources would this require?



audio samples will follow. however, this is still in prototype status. the controller is actually a sequential switch, thus it works nice with pulsewave inputs, whereas triangle and sine result in pops.
i think i will do a new controller board using simple VCAs, suggestions?

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Luka



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

very cool mathias
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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

can't wait to hear this in action
yes very cool Cool
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richardc64



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Damn! You do some fine work. Even your kludges look professional!
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:15 am    Post subject: Re: Breakdown Filter Module
Subject description: 8 VCFs stepper
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fonik wrote:
the controller is actually a sequential switch, thus it works nice with pulsewave inputs, whereas triangle and sine result in pops.
i think i will do a new controller board using simple VCAs, suggestions?

Sounds like a good place to use the JH or DT interpolating scanners? In my system I have a bank of six FET-based VCAs and I've done some wavescanning with them, using a six phase VCO. This is a more versatile approach, but a more complicated build.
http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-19841.html

Very Happy

Ian
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tommi



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's a great idea! My next module had to be a panner, but this module goes far beyond that. I can't wait to hear something from it!
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:56 am    Post subject: Re: Breakdown Filter Module
Subject description: 8 VCFs stepper
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thank you for the suggestion, ian. i will take a look at that.

what about using a 4017 counter and controlling a set of VCAs with it's logic gates? i could soften the edges with a simple resistor/cap lag, i guess.

frijitz wrote:
fonik wrote:
the controller is actually a sequential switch, thus it works nice with pulsewave inputs, whereas triangle and sine result in pops.
i think i will do a new controller board using simple VCAs, suggestions?

Sounds like a good place to use the JH or DT interpolating scanners? In my system I have a bank of six FET-based VCAs and I've done some wavescanning with them, using a six phase VCO. This is a more versatile approach, but a more complicated build.
http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-19841.html

Very Happy

Ian

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fonik



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tommi wrote:
That's a great idea!

but not mine. i like the Tweakbench Breakdown VSTi very much, so i thought i could try an analoge version (without AR, though).

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numbertalk



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very cool. Watching this topic for more.
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peng



Joined: Feb 23, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
i like the Tweakbench Breakdown VSTi very much, so i thought i could try an analoge version (without AR, though).


Love the Tweakbench plugs! I even donated money to him.

It's interesting to see someone else using software/VSTi as inspiration for hardware. I actually got into modular synths by building mock-modulars in Reaktor 2. And the circle goes round and round Smile

p.
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SineSurfer



Joined: Jan 19, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice one!, I though about doing something similar, but with selectable filter(303, moog, ms20, wasp) + midibox... not on my queue list top place though heehe

btw. similar features can be found in VA hardware(with step sequencer filter tracks):
2000 - Korg ms2000 synth
2002 - Roger Linn's Adrenalinn guitar fxs processor

Would be interesting to see if some older hardware does this too besides custom massive modular setups Smile

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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:54 am    Post subject: Re: Breakdown Filter Module
Subject description: 8 VCFs stepper
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fonik wrote:
why 8 filters instead of one filter? imagine you just use one filter and want to control different CV amount, mode (LP/BP/HP) and pan (L-R) for each step. how many VCAs, mixers and CV sources would this require?


why not crop everything very tight on one PCB?
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fonik



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:09 am    Post subject: Re: Breakdown Filter Module
Subject description: 8 VCFs stepper
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TekniK wrote:
why not crop everything very tight on one PCB?

1st: i wanted PCB mounted controls
2nd: i would have to buy eagle standart first
3rd: i now can replace the controller board (not envisaged, but now i am happy about it)

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great idea Fonik.
I wondered about doing something similar with an old graphic EQ, a 4017, and a bunch of home grown Vactrols! Laughing
Never got around to it though. Sad

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Peake



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very interesting! It should be unique-sounding at audio rate switching!
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TekniK



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Peake wrote:
Very interesting! It should be unique-sounding at audio rate switching!


yes probably
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fonik



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

here are some samples: sweeps of a single filter with resonance and sequences.


LPSweep.mp3
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BPSweep.mp3
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 Downloaded:  402 Time(s)


HPSweep.mp3
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 Filename:  HPSweep.mp3
 Filesize:  172.39 KB
 Downloaded:  415 Time(s)


Sequence_01.mp3
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 Filename:  Sequence_01.mp3
 Filesize:  271.99 KB
 Downloaded:  482 Time(s)


Sequence_02.mp3
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 Filename:  Sequence_02.mp3
 Filesize:  200.14 KB
 Downloaded:  445 Time(s)


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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

They sound fucking brilliant Fonik! Very Happy

You can nick my name for this idea if you want.
I was going to call my incarnation of it a "Frequencer".
Are you gonna post any details about the controller board?
Schems?

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SineSurfer



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great work Fonik!, any multifilter samples? Very Happy
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adambee7



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wicked stuff fonik Very Happy Very Happy
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TekniK



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nice,but would be great to have a smoother morph possibility ,would be great for moving soundscapes..
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fonik



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
Are you gonna post any details about the controller board? Schems?

TekniK wrote:
nice,but would be great to have a smoother morph possibility ,would be great for moving soundscapes..

i am still thinking about the 'how'. as mentioned before the boards does not work that well for others than pulse waves, so i want to redesign it.

however, the unit should be clock controlled. and how could i handle this? thinking about the timing with changing cross-fade times?
i fear i will have to incorporate 8VCAs and ARs Shocked the clock would trigger a 4017, that would provide the gates for the ARs, which control the VCAs...
and how to implement ONE attack and ONE release control potentiometer for ALL ARs? OTAs?

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TekniK



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hmm yes i have easy to say,i know

i think one manual morph overlap control and external cv input for all stages would be already very cool

donth know how to,check this doepfer module

Quote:
Module A-144 is a control voltage modifier that is used in combination with the voltage controlled mixer A-135 in the first place. From a linear increasing voltage at the input the module derives four displaced triangle output voltages. When these 4 outputs are connected to the four control voltage inputs of the A-135 one obtains a fading over of the four A-135 audio inputs ("morphing"). The Morphing can be controlled manual and modulated with an external control voltage (e.g. from LFO, ADSR, Random, MIDI-to-CV, Theremin, Light-to-CV, analog sequencer) with attenuator.
Applications: voltage controlled morphing of 4 audio signals in combination with A-135, e.g. morphing between the 4 waveform outputs of an VCA (sawtooth/ rectangle/ triangle/ sine) or the 4 filter outputs of the multimode filter A-121 (lowpass/ bandpass/ highpass/ notch) or the 4 filter outputs of the A-105 (6/12/18/24dB) to obtain a filter with voltage controlled slope.


ofcource this is just a fixed morph,no variable overlap time (so not ideal for rhythmic in sync sequences),and if u will be able to sync it right in tempo with something else is another question!

Anyhow if u would made something like this (4 or 8 stage sequential variable morph time device) it would stand as a seperate module to.

i want plenty of them Very Happy


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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's the old trade off between heaps of modules and the ability to patch them like this or not, and making it a "one trick pony" module which only does this function.
You need to weigh up whether you can make it a "one trick pony" which justifies locking away 8 filters, 8 VCAs, and 8 ARs for this single function.
Personally, I wouldn't lock all of those components into this single task unless you can get it to do something which the individual components patched together can't.
Which leaves the other option of making it more specialised, but a simpler design. Like, just adding a way of slowing the cross fade between filters. Maybe vactrols? But that would be expensive. But not if you rolled your own? Maybe.
And then how complicated do you want the sequencer section/control board to be? Confused
What about a single filter with vactrols on it's VCs which have their own gate bus on a simple 8 position sequence? It would make it a lot simpler, for roughly the same result. Sort of a beefed up Event Horizon.

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BTW,
I'm in a similar position at the moment 'cos I'm playing with these MN3205 delays, and I don't know if I should build all three of them into a BBD reverb type of "one trick pony", or if I should build them into separate modules with the option of patching them together.

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