electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Les Hall's Projects including eChucK
The Karplus Strong eChucK DIY Project
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Inventor
Page 2 of 22 [542 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, ..., 20, 21, 22 Next
Author Message
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is a photo of the mysterious chopsticks. It is a proto board with a notch cut out of it and when seen from that angle it looks like chopsticks. Sorry photo is blurry.

Actually I'm surprised that you guys were distracted by the chopsticks so much that you missed the reflection of the UFO in the background! Laughing


chopsticks.jpg
 Description:
The mysterious chopsticks
 Filesize:  148.47 KB
 Viewed:  131 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

chopsticks.jpg



_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As a sort of test-fit, I did a board placement this morning, shown below. While the BS part of the BSG fits nicely, there is little room left for the G part (KS). So what I'm thinking of doing is simplifying the LEDIL logic somehow. I'll let you know how that goes.

Les


BSG_board1.jpg
 Description:
bsg board layout
 Filesize:  199.16 KB
 Viewed:  133 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

BSG_board1.jpg



_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I simplified the LEDIL to make more room on the board, and now there is plenty of space. You can see two sections of LEDIL in the attached schematic. There are no series resistors with the LEDs and no transistor buffer stages either. I may have to adjust the bias and gain of the output, but at least I think the output will be correct.

The performance difference here is that the input LEDs will get dimmer when there are more of them on at the same time, but that saves on battery life and makes for a more interesting display perhaps, so it's not really a negative.


BSG_schematic2.jpg
 Description:
LEDIL Schematic, simplified
 Filesize:  46.88 KB
 Viewed:  133 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

BSG_schematic2.jpg



_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
droffset



Joined: Feb 02, 2009
Posts: 486
Location: new zealand
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Looking great, you're really cranking on this , go, go, go, go.
_________________
==================
Check out the FREE Intro to Lunettas Document
https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZIwOP-PR9sSZDlidzgzbV8wY3RjenJqanY&hl=en

Edit: Spelling mistakes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ty droffset, i need motivation like that. Shown is a layout with simplified LEDIL and two opamp chips on the output. Should be enough room for a KS circuit, should I ever get to testing that. Bet I should huh? Anyways ty and best wishes droffset.

Les


BSG_board2.jpg
 Description:
getting there
 Filesize:  170.87 KB
 Viewed:  123 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

BSG_board2.jpg



_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK folks, I'm ready for a design review. The attached files are the schematic and board files for the BSG board, or BSKS as I've been calling it. I'd appreciate if anyone could review them and let me know what you think.

Thanks,

Les


BSKS4.sch
 Description:
Schematic

Download
 Filename:  BSKS4.sch
 Filesize:  154.67 KB
 Downloaded:  137 Time(s)


BSKS4.brd
 Description:
Board

Download
 Filename:  BSKS4.brd
 Filesize:  56.36 KB
 Downloaded:  114 Time(s)


_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Dan Lavin



Joined: Nov 09, 2006
Posts: 620
Location: Spring Lake, Mi, USA
Audio files: 21

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Les,

these are Eagle files? Just checking.

regards, Dan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

antman49443 wrote:
Les,

these are Eagle files? Just checking.

regards, Dan


Yes they are Eagle CAD files.

Les

_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
toad008



Joined: Sep 01, 2007
Posts: 28
Location: maryland/usa

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:56 pm    Post subject: yo inventor Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dude i like the pictures! Smile Where do i apply to be your lab studio slave? haha serious ... droooollllll

Toadie Shocked Shocked Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Dan Lavin



Joined: Nov 09, 2006
Posts: 620
Location: Spring Lake, Mi, USA
Audio files: 21

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Les,

If you can wait until the weekend, I'll see what I can do to review. Too many pushy customers are driving me crazy right now. State Machine can vouch for my pcb work.

regards, Dan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17606
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 124
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

On your boolean sequencer, what effect would using binary counters instead of decimal counters?
_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

antman, sure I'm happy to wait for the weekend, I'm a little burned out after all that work.

Howard, This thing needs a binary counter, yes. I changed the counter from a 4017 decade counter to a 4040 binary counter for just that reason, it's what I need for the job. I had misunderstood and thought that a 4017 was a 10-bit binary counter, but now that I've seen it used in the baby 10, I realize my mistake.

To all, some issues I am concerned with are: will the new LEDIL really work? I have just thought it out and not constructed it. Also will the Karplus-Strong circuit work with this very simple implementation? I'm concerned about the HF pulsed input burst not doing the job and also the AC and DC bias are tied together. Maybe we can work out these details somehow and make this thing the DIY project it really should be!

Les

_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: yo inventor Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

toad008 wrote:
dude i like the pictures! Smile Where do i apply to be your lab studio slave? haha serious ... droooollllll

Toadie Shocked Shocked Shocked


Toad, you are so funny, great sense of humor!

Les

_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17606
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 124
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I usually drive LEDs with a buffer chip of some sort. It looks like your circuit can present some very large and quite variable loads on the counter. It's been a while since I worked with CMOS, but if I remember correctly, most logic devices aren't designed to drive loads. They look to drive very hi Z lines.
_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
I usually drive LEDs with a buffer chip of some sort. It looks like your circuit can present some very large and quite variable loads on the counter. It's been a while since I worked with CMOS, but if I remember correctly, most logic devices aren't designed to drive loads. They look to drive very hi Z lines.


Hi Howard, you're right, and Dan noticed it too (sent me a message in pm). So now I need a work-around or else I go to surface mount or else get a new CAD tool. Good thing I asked for a design review!

Les

_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
wmonk



Joined: Sep 15, 2008
Posts: 485
Location: Enschede, the Netherlands
Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Isn't panel mounting the LEDs and switches an option? You save a lot of space on the PCB if you do so. Or make 2 PCBs, one for the LEDs and switches, and one for the other parts, en connect them with a few ribbon cables.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wmonk wrote:
Isn't panel mounting the LEDs and switches an option? You save a lot of space on the PCB if you do so. Or make 2 PCBs, one for the LEDs and switches, and one for the other parts, en connect them with a few ribbon cables.


Yes, I had thought of making the single board as a panel mount dealie, but your idea of two boards with one as a panel mount seems more interesting now. The idea is to make it a stand-alone board or panel mount, your choice. If I have to add buffers for LEDs and more parts for Karplus-Strong, then I'll definitely need two boards. Thanks for the suggestion, wmonk.

Les

_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Actually, another option is to do separate Boolean Sequencer and Karplus-Strong boards. This alternative makes some sense because modular synthesis folks might want to make only a K-S or only a BS board for panel mounting.

Certainly a K-S board does not seem to exist and with a whole board for K-S, we could have lots of features like pseudo-random noise burst and other input styles, filter options, etc. Besides, I do like the idea of an extended board pair for the stand-alone version rather than a sandwich board pair.

Just tossing ideas around. Clearly the board needs major revisions and I'm looking forward to reading more design review comments.

Les

_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Also, another thing I'm not too hot about with the LEDIL is that it shows inverted bits. You see blinky lights according to your switch selections, but the lights are "on" when the logic is "off", so you only get a note when nothing blinks. This is counter-intuitive, though it still makes for a nice light show.

I'd prefer to just do it with standard LED outputs on resistors, and with a dual board approach that would work.

Les

_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
droffset



Joined: Feb 02, 2009
Posts: 486
Location: new zealand
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is the 4049 hex inverting buffer useful here?
_________________
==================
Check out the FREE Intro to Lunettas Document
https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZIwOP-PR9sSZDlidzgzbV8wY3RjenJqanY&hl=en

Edit: Spelling mistakes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
wmonk



Joined: Sep 15, 2008
Posts: 485
Location: Enschede, the Netherlands
Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Inventor wrote:

Certainly a K-S board does not seem to exist and with a whole board for K-S, we could have lots of features like pseudo-random noise burst and other input styles, filter options, etc. Besides, I do like the idea of an extended board pair for the stand-alone version rather than a sandwich board pair.


I like the idea of a separate K-S board. You can easily add an interesting option for the modular guys: filter replacement. You add a standard 1-pole low pass filter to the board, and one can 'replace' this filter with switching sockets. I think there are many possibilities here to get all kinds of crazy sounds using different filters.

Inventor wrote:
Also, another thing I'm not too hot about with the LEDIL is that it shows inverted bits. You see blinky lights according to your switch selections, but the lights are "on" when the logic is "off", so you only get a note when nothing blinks. This is counter-intuitive, though it still makes for a nice light show.

Inverters are the solution. Or use LED bargraph displays. (http://futurlec.com/LED/LEDBARRED.shtml) They're easy to fit and save a lot of space.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4758
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jesus H Christ Les!!@!
Are you criminially insane or what?!?! Laughing
Love your work dude.
It's gonna be a week or two before I work out what the hell is goin on here!!

_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks wmonk, that's just the LED bargraph part I've been looking for!

I also like the notion of a separate KS board, and with a filter option - whoot! This will go into the plans for sue!

Les

_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
JovianPyx



Joined: Nov 20, 2007
Posts: 1221
Location: West Red Spot, Jupiter
Audio files: 157

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How many strings will the KS board support? Is it polyphonic?
_________________
FPGA, dsPIC and Fatman Synth Stuff

Time flies like a banana.
Fruit flies when you're having fun.
BTW, Do these genes make my ass look fat?
corruptio optimi pessima
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ScottG wrote:
How many strings will the KS board support? Is it polyphonic?


Hey ScottG, actually it's monophonic. It only does one string.

Les

_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Inventor
Page 2 of 22 [542 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, ..., 20, 21, 22 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Les Hall's Projects including eChucK
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use