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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
How to create a ducking delay
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Akum420



Joined: Jul 22, 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:07 am    Post subject: How to create a ducking delay Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

How can I create a ducking delay (or reverb) with my G2 ? I supose that I have to use the Env Folower. I know that I can use an "audio in" signal or a osc as a trigger... Thank you for your help.
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iPassenger



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Off the top of my head:

If you run your env follower into a LevConv, set to Pos input and PosInv output, that should give you an inverse control signal (your ducking bit). Run your delay output signal through a LevMod and route your ducking signal into the Mod input. Setting the amount dial between 0 and AM should allow you to control the amount of ducking required, obviously you'll need to get your settings right on your Env Follower as well.

If your using a stereo delay, make two LevMods, one delay fed to each, set the amount of modulation to 0, wire a unipolar constant module to both of the mod depth inputs and raise the mod depth dial halfway. Now the constant dial controls the depth of the ducking. Obviously you'll also need to wire your inverted env follower signal to both mod inputs as before.

Hope it works. Smile

*Thinking about it, as you already have a positive only mod signal, you might be able to use the full range of the LevMod mdoulation dial, not sure would need to test it at home. *

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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Why not just use the compressor module in sidechain mode? scratch
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dasz



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tim, compressor ducking with sidechain certainly does the trick.

interestingly enough, ducking using envelopes has it's advantages (as I learned recently while improving my live set. in my case, I listen for the envelope of my bd which is also triggered in the G2, so I simply use to the BD envelope without the need for a env follower, but the concept is simmilar)

using control signal ducking (envelopes) vs sidechain compression

1 the envelope way of ducking means you can alter the frequency of the ducked instrument (for example assigning the envelope to modulate the cutoff of a HP filter, if a kick drum needs the LF spectrum at times). compressor ducking will interrupt/mute the ducked instrument.

2 the other advantage of this way of ducking is you can use midi to send duck (env) information between slots (if the ducked instrument is in a different slot from the sidechain source) vs using an audio bus to send the sidechain information.

[edit] with envelope modulation you still get attack and release rates as you would with a compressor and these can also be modulated in realtime (if you use ADSR Mod) and may be cheaper than using a compressor module

hope you find this useful.
/Dasz

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Last edited by dasz on Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

duckling delay:

Linux ... Linux ... Linux ... Linux ... Linux... Linux

Mr. Green

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dasz



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

an improvement to your penguin delay

[edit - the duckling has crashed .... how ironic Wink ]

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Last edited by dasz on Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Akum420



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok tell me if I'm right please. Look my patch. The 2 signals are from 2 OSC. I added a cold penguin melody in the exemple for you Tim!...


penguin delay v11.JPG
 Description:
exemple of ducking delay aka the penguin delay
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penguin delay v11.JPG



penguin delay v11.pch2
 Description:
exemple of ducking delay aka the penguin delay

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 Filename:  penguin delay v11.pch2
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iPassenger



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The ducking bit looks right to me, only looking at the picture tho as at work again. Smile You could of course take the signal from the osc that is going through the delay, before it goes through the delay of course, if you wanted as opposed to having two completely seperate signal paths.

As said above a compressor side chain input would also work, though may be more costly processor wise. Or as Dasz says just use an inverse positive envelope triggered by the same gate that triggers the note on of the synth sound, to duck the delay, rather than using an env follower. There are probably many more ways of doing this too. Very Happy

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iPassenger



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Try this one:

I have provided two modes, one using an envelope follower and one that just triggers an inverse envelope. Smile


2 Ducks.pch2
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 Filename:  2 Ducks.pch2
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Akum420



Joined: Jul 22, 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nice one !


Can I have to use a ducking filter (HP or LP) to bypass completely the sound? Because even playing on the parameters, I still hear the sound very low. Another solution is to use a "SignalToMIDI" and dropdown the volume from the sound with a MIDI #cc?

Is it normal that when my audio signal is too strong, the ducking effect is not working? The sound is not attenuated.


I found this one :

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

http://modular.sebastianberweck.de/forums.html?option=com_content&task=view&id=292&Itemid=83


Smile[/img]
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