It is " almost finished" now, needs some cleaning up, and a layout, and decent outputs, and filters, and a way to have the outputs modulate two of the base oscillators frequency, and... hrmpfff... I'll present this as is.
Edit: error warning, to be updated.
How it should be is (at least thats what I have now and shows potential): The R/2R just drives a diy vactrol, the LDR part is parallel to the clock potmeters (or in series, still have to try that). The audio is not taken from the R/2R network, but from the clock oscillators.
Clock and Data lines could be swappedl.
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Last edited by electri-fire on Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
The purpose of the rungler is to create short stepped patterns of variable length and speed. One could categorize the circuit somewhere halfway between a plain S&H and a shiftregister-based pseudorandom generator. It needs two frequency sources to work and basically creates a complex interference pattern that can be fed back into the frequency parameters of the driving oscillators to create an unlimited amount of havoc. /.../
The rungler is basically a CMOS shift register clocked by one oscillator and receiving its data input from the other oscillator. The output bits of the shiftregister are used as a binary code 'to do something with'. E.g. in the Benjolin the last 3 stages of the shift register form a 3 bit code that is fed into a 3 bit DA converter. This DA eight level output voltage is fed back to the oscillator frequency control inputs. /.../
In the Benjolin design the data input for the shiftregister is not just the pulse from the second oscillator but the XOR of this pulse and the last bit of the shift register (inspired on the pseudorandom generator).
Imho a rungler circuit works best in an analog electronics implementation. It is definitively more alive and surprising due to the slight instabilities in the analog circuitry. I did digital implementations, but they can't beat the 'organic behaviour' of the analog versions. But this is just personal taste...
Here's something I started but forgot about (til' now). I did breadboard it and it works. Got some cool melodies out of it too. It needs a filter, and I wasn't to happy with the range, if I remember correctly. But for only an hour or so spent at the breadboard it yielded entertaining results. It's a start.
Thanks electri-fire, if it gets anywhere close to the real benjolin im sold. Can't wait to hear some soundsamples. _________________ There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
Hunter S. Thompson movies noise
Great sample slacker!
That's really nice, is it totally free-running? _________________ There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
Hunter S. Thompson movies noise
A demo of the 4015 rungler will take me quite some time for to post. I'm leaving for the holidays in a few days, but I'm pleased to have stirred up the subject. Thanks all for your great contributions.
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:37 pm Post subject:
Re: Benjolin like Lunetta scheme
It is " almost finished" now, /.../ hrmpfff... I'll present this as is.
Prematurely posted as happens to me more often than not. Almost finished didn't work, but now it "almost" does. Well, it does, but I still have some alternative options to try. Like do I use a vactrol in series or parallel to the pots. Do I modulate the Clocks or the Data?
Last weekend home before I leave for vacation. If I don't post the corrected schematic I'm sure you could figure it out now.
Thanks electri-fire, if it gets anywhere close to the real benjolin im sold. Can't wait to hear some soundsamples.
Heheh, well, the rungler bit works. Actually I think I prefer the 4015 over the 4021 as it gets me two shift registers.
Soundwise those smooth Benjolin oscillators are a totally different matter.
Interesting detail: Now I'm modulating the clock frequency, but I overlooked that the Benjolin actually modulates the Data oscillator. However it still sounds like rungling to me, and I noticed you could swap the clock and data lines and still have interesting results.
Makes me want to try modulating BOTH the Clock AND the Data oscillators. OH MY GOD. I ain't done with this yet for the time being.
Hey, I've seen some of you Lunetta lovers have shift registers and XORs. If you don't want to use vactrols you may have VCO's and you can patch some stuff up. I'd be interested in more "rungler" like setups.
That's looking great electri-fire! Liking how it sounds with the pillow on top almost working like a highpass filter. I wish I could have a go at it, but the weather is killing me in my single room appartment, HOT!.
What's the problem with your soundcard? Ive been using the line-in on my laptop with audacityhttp://audacity.sourceforge.net/ wich is free and Im getting pretty nice results. _________________ There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
Hunter S. Thompson movies noise
Nothing really other than being bulky, and my little "studio room" is filled to the brim with sound toys in various states of disassembly , MIDI gear I don't use anymore, in short, clutter. My laptop is in the dining room, schlepping with stuff is not an option. What's wrong is I'm lazy actually.
The laptop has a microphone input that is easily overdriven, no line in. Lunetta's don't need a lot of headroom, so it turned out satisfactory.
I really liked the last mono wave file the most out of all of them. Sounded great from Audacity through my Audiogram.
Now - is your schematic at the top of the thread the latest? Or have you changed things? I'd like to play with this guy as well and see abuot changing not timings. (I'll have to study the circuit more.)
Nice and simple as well. Mmmm right. I'd also like to thrown a VCA into there as well.
- is your schematic at the top of the thread the latest? Or have you changed things?
Other than clarifying the "out's" are just to drive the LEDs for the vactrols , the LDR's being in parallel to the clock osc pots and taking the sound from the clock lines, that's what I used.
Edit: the R/2R are just trimpots in series, adjusted on feel, LEDs straight to ground. I misplaced my VOM, so recommendations for R/2R values are welcome as I want this as a hardwired module.
Edit again: never mind that, as we probably have different LEDs and LDRs so some tweaking is to be expected.
Heheh, I was just reading stuff on the Deathlehem forum. Here's a similar idea by loss1234. Uses a 4015 and 4070, but has the parallel outs from both shiftregisters at one single big bunch of summing resistors.
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 5977 Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258
Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:00 pm Post subject:
Cool, this rungler is similar to a Boolean Sequencer in that it creates long patterns that are rhytmically pleasing. Nice work folks, I like it. Mathe, will you bring copies of your schematic to the Lunetta Workshop at em10? We could build this one optionally.
Les _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Cool, this rungler is similar to a Boolean Sequencer in that it creates long patterns that are rhytmically pleasing.
Thanks Les, yes, results can be similar. The most important feature that makes a circuit a Rungler is recursion/ self regulation. One could go as far as saying the universe is based on recursion. I'm sure Rob would agree any bunch of signals turned into a control voltage to change clock speeds upstream in the dataflow could essentially be called a Rungler.
Your early Boolean Sequencers did not have the option of connecting downstream data to upstream inputs, so the pattern was (more) predetermined by the patch structure. That's the reason I've been pestering you about additional solderpads at strategic points between sections in the event you design a dedicated PCB for a Boolean Sequencer .
Will you bring copies of your schematic to the Lunetta Workshop at em10? We could build this one optionally.
It's an option, and yes, I could better print myself then, to not tax upload speed for the radio stream and all that.
I've been playing around with the 4021 / 4046 method (have loads of 4021 / 4014s here & a bunch of 4046s that won't work in the TH X-4046)
Some interesting stuff; the good thing about the 4046 is its super easy to tap off a nice saw wave as well which is good to mix in with the squares from time to time. I used a 4M7 for the static timing resistor which gives a really broad range with a 1M pot.
I ended up pulling the VCO 4046 off the breadboard so I had space to mess around with some filters, the 4021 + 4046 make a really cool clock source - XORing the Clock with the 3rd bit of the R/2R for the data input & CVing the 4046 with the R/2R, via a buffer & some lag (electri-fire gets that for free by using vactrols) creates a clock that, at sub-audio, will pulse slowly, then speed up & down in fairly regular patterns.
As the 4046 approches audio rate the clock out jumps in & out of the audio spectrum as the shift register fills up & empties itself. At audio the SR stays more or less full & you get a nice womp-womp LFO.
the attached is a quick recording of whats on the breadboard at the moment. The 4046 out drives a little transistor envelope generator (old Roland Drum Machine style) which is fed into a state variable filter. The SVF is a little wonky at the moment as it has a vactrol over 1/2 of its frequency control & a pot on the other half (this is kinda cool for drum sounds actually)
The vactrol is being driven by the 4046 CV out (pin 10) which kind of follows the rungler CV but is delayed somewhat. I adjust the range / rate of the 4046 & the (1/2) filter freq.
I think I'm going to make a little module with the 4046 + 4021, with an external input into the XOR (& switch) so with an external VCO it will be patchable as a "proper" Rungler CV / Bit generator
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