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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Trapezoid VCA anybody?
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Would you buy a Jh Trapezoid VCA PCB?
no - only interested in the original EMS circuit (this is not goint to happen - sorry)
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
yes - if it emulates the behaviour of the EMS circuit, and doesn't need component selecting
97%
 97%  [ 40 ]
Total Votes : 41

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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:09 am    Post subject: Trapezoid VCA anybody? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I wonder how many interest there would be in a Trapezoid VCA PCB.

It would - of course - be designed to emulate the behaviour of the famous EMS Synthi A and VCS3 Trapezoid, and it would be - of course - not be a direct copy of the EMS circuit.

Let me know.

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlIKIr3Ef5c

http://www.jhaible.de/trapezoid/jh_trapezoid_vca_1.mp3

Quick and dirty demo.

Farfisa VIP 500 thru the Trapezoid VCA + Phaser + BBD Delay

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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StephenGiles



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That rang a bell!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bU7fT9oZMI
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Adam-V



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Making this one available would be just brilliant Jürgen.

Would the trapezoid signal be made externally available for use as a CV source for things other than the VCA?

Cheers,
Adam-V

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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Adam-V wrote:

Would the trapezoid signal be made externally available for use as a CV source for things other than the VCA?


Yes, absolutely.
Positive and negative, and you choose the peak output voltage.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nice Smile i would want at least 2 i think
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TekniK



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

what is it exactly,a pcb with vca + AR generator?
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Adam-V



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
Adam-V wrote:

Would the trapezoid signal be made externally available for use as a CV source for things other than the VCA?


Yes, absolutely.
Positive and negative, and you choose the peak output voltage.

JH.


Brilliant!!!!! I'd be up for a number of them then.

Cheers,
Adam-V

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a100user



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Interested indeed Jurgen

David
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jumunius



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, one please!
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Trapezoid VCA anybody? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:

It would - of course - be designed to emulate the behaviour of the famous EMS Synthi A and VCS3 Trapezoid, and it would be - of course - not be a direct copy of the EMS circuit.


Of course when you put it like that, it's a YES-YES situation!

YES! Very Happy

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:
what is it exactly,a pcb with vca + AR generator?


Do your homework! Rolling Eyes Wink

The EMS trapezoid ain't no simple AR generator!!

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ACHTUNG!
ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
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TekniK



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
TekniK wrote:
what is it exactly,a pcb with vca + AR generator?


Do your homework! Rolling Eyes Wink

The EMS trapezoid ain't no simple AR generator!!


what is it then thats its so special?
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numbertalk



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Count me in for 1
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ejr27233



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd be in for 2 PCB's
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:
what is it then thats its so special?


Hard to explain.
When I build that Synthi Clone, I thought a single, restricted envelope like that would hardly be enough for a synthesizer. So I added a Hold-ADSR envelope.
More than 10 years later, a cannot remember a single occasion when I made use of that HADSR. I always used the Trapezoid.

(This applies to FX sounds and to modulating external signals only. Playing melodies asks for an ADSR.)

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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TekniK



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok,and does this vca design add some smoothness or something to the sound.

Your YT demo sounds nice,but its just because of the AR effect or?
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:

When I build that Synthi Clone, I thought a single, restricted envelope like that would hardly be enough for a synthesizer. So I added a Hold-ADSR envelope.
More than 10 years later, a cannot remember a single occasion when I made use of that HADSR. I always used the Trapezoid.


It's funny JH, because I actually DID always wonder why you did this. Now I know! Very Happy

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DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
jhaible wrote:

When I build that Synthi Clone, I thought a single, restricted envelope like that would hardly be enough for a synthesizer. So I added a Hold-ADSR envelope.
More than 10 years later, a cannot remember a single occasion when I made use of that HADSR. I always used the Trapezoid.


It's funny JH, because I actually DID always wonder why you did this. Now I know! Very Happy


Having an envelope that can sustain for as long as a key is held can be useful sometimes. How about a modification so that the hold time control could be switched to 'Gate' mode?
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ian-s wrote:
v-un-v wrote:
jhaible wrote:

When I build that Synthi Clone, I thought a single, restricted envelope like that would hardly be enough for a synthesizer. So I added a Hold-ADSR envelope.
More than 10 years later, a cannot remember a single occasion when I made use of that HADSR. I always used the Trapezoid.


It's funny JH, because I actually DID always wonder why you did this. Now I know! Very Happy


Having an envelope that can sustain for as long as a key is held can be useful sometimes. How about a modification so that the hold time control could be switched to 'Gate' mode?


That's already in there. Standard Gate and / or Switch trigger input.
The On-Time parameter is important for the auto-cycle mode, not so much for the gated mode.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is there a standard for +/-12V connectors?
Or are they alle different?
Could anyone point me to dimensional drawings and pinout of the most common +/-12V connectors, please?

Thanks

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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a100user



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jurgen

Doepfer have some good info here:

http://www.doepfer.de/a100_man/a100t_e.htm

With the exception of Analoge Systems this is what all Euro makers adopt

David
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

a100user wrote:
Jurgen

Doepfer have some good info here:

http://www.doepfer.de/a100_man/a100t_e.htm

With the exception of Analoge Systems this is what all Euro makers adopt

David


Thank you - I'll go for the 10-pin version then.
How many space does it need around the actual footprint?
Best let me know the size of the whole rectangele to be left free on the board ...

First time I ever integrate a D connector on one of my boards. Smile Smile Smile

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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a100user



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't have a module here at the moment but the ribbon headers are quite low profile so you could probably get away with 5mm all round the pins.

I believe this is the correct spec for the 16 pin version

http://www.farnell.com/cad/308052.pdf

Some folks use this type as it's polorized and prevents them plugging the module the wrong way round
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you!

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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