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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Trapezoid VCA anybody?
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Would you buy a Jh Trapezoid VCA PCB?
no - only interested in the original EMS circuit (this is not goint to happen - sorry)
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
yes - if it emulates the behaviour of the EMS circuit, and doesn't need component selecting
97%
 97%  [ 40 ]
Total Votes : 41

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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PCBs arrived.
I hope I'll find the time to build another prototype from one of these - I always build one from production run PCBs in order to avoid any trouble, before I start shipping.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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LektroiD



Joined: Aug 23, 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi, is there much difference between this, and the Buchla 281 Function Generator?

http://www.sdiy.org/toppobrillo/twoeightyone.html

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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

LektroiD wrote:
Hi, is there much difference between this, and the Buchla 281 Function Generator?

http://www.sdiy.org/toppobrillo/twoeightyone.html


It's been a while since I've looked at Buchla schemos.
I'd expect the Buchla module to be a lot more powerfull and "perfect" in its waveforms than the EMS (after which I've modelled mine).
People who love EMS, normally love it for quirks and unexpected behaviour.

ETA: On the Buchla 281, you have a plethora of possibilities, and you connect two separte sections to get a similar function as with the EMS. On the Synthi, you have just a few knobs that interact in a unique way. There isn't even a switch to go from self-cycling mode to one-shot envelope. You do it all with the same potentiometer that also sets the Off time ...
It's a very, very ergonomic concept. Hard to explain, but immediately appealing once you have tried it. Smile

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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v-un-v
Janitor
Janitor


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I spoke to Bob Williams today, of Analogue Systems fame. AS being one of only a a small handful of companies allowed under licence to do a clone of this unique EMS device (Jurgen, I'm very pleased to announce, being another one of that 'handful' Very Happy ). AS knows (Bob told me) that Jurgen will deliver something really special, probably even better than 'the real thing'. Personally I can't wait! Cool Very Happy
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ACHTUNG!
ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN.
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emdot_ambient



Joined: Nov 22, 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, I'm stoked about this one, too. I'm all for improving on old classic designs!
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm offline for a few days. Business trip to Berlin, *and* debitel email died on Friday.
I received some payments for the Trapezoid PCBs already, and will ship next weekend, but can't send out individual confirmation emails right now. Just in cese you wondered.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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MR-808



Joined: Sep 30, 2010
Posts: 28
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jürgen,

If you have time, would you be so kind as to briefly describe each of the connectors on the circuit board? Some are easy to figure out from the Synthi front panel, some not. I am finding it difficult to design a front panel without knowing more about the "variety of extra functions that you can implement, or omit". Embarassed

Vielen dank!
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

MR-808 wrote:
Jürgen,

If you have time, would you be so kind as to briefly describe each of the connectors on the circuit board? Some are easy to figure out from the Synthi front panel, some not. I am finding it difficult to design a front panel without knowing more about the "variety of extra functions that you can implement, or omit". Embarassed

Vielen dank!


I will, and hopefully more than just briefly, but only when I'm back.
Sorry for the delay, but things are extremely turbulent around here, and right now I have to catch a flight.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Schematics

http://www.jhaible.de/trapezoid/trapezoid_sch.pdf

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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numbertalk



Joined: May 05, 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Calibration instructions at some point much appreciated too Smile

jhaible wrote:
MR-808 wrote:
Jürgen,

If you have time, would you be so kind as to briefly describe each of the connectors on the circuit board? Some are easy to figure out from the Synthi front panel, some not. I am finding it difficult to design a front panel without knowing more about the "variety of extra functions that you can implement, or omit". Embarassed

Vielen dank!


I will, and hopefully more than just briefly, but only when I'm back.
Sorry for the delay, but things are extremely turbulent around here, and right now I have to catch a flight.

JH.
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

numbertalk wrote:
Calibration instructions at some point much appreciated too Smile


Thanks for reminding me. I just wrote them and put theme online, Sir! Smile

http://www.jhaible.de/trapezoid/trapezoid.html

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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numbertalk



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you sir!

And no rush, just making sure I'm not missing it - there's not a BOM up yet, is there? Didn't see a link to one.

P.S. Got my board yesterday - thanks!

jhaible wrote:
numbertalk wrote:
Calibration instructions at some point much appreciated too Smile


Thanks for reminding me. I just wrote them and put theme online, Sir! Smile

http://www.jhaible.de/trapezoid/trapezoid.html

JH.
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intercorni



Joined: Jun 04, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

When will release the BOM?
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

intercorni wrote:
When will release the BOM?


All the information is in the schematics and component overlay already. I'm pretty sure someone else will be faster writing a BOM than me.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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e-grad



Joined: Sep 12, 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hopefully a faultless BOM for the Trapezoid. Pls note whether the input/output connectors nor the pots are included. The PSU is not accounted for eiher.

edit: corrected BOM


parts list.xls
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  parts list.xls
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Last edited by e-grad on Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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numbertalk



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

e-grad wrote:
Hopefully a faultless BOM for the Trapezoid. Pls note whether the input/output connectors nor the pots are included. The PSU is not accounted for eiher.


Awesome! We'll need the wiring diagram(s) for the pots and jacks.

Edit - oops just checked and pots seem to be on the schematic.
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Girts



Joined: Aug 21, 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

there should be one 100K trimmer (10mm), one 2M multiturn trimmer and nine 100nF SMT capacitors (on the solder side) as well.
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e-grad



Joined: Sep 12, 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Girts wrote:
there should be one 100K trimmer (10mm), one 2M multiturn trimmer and nine 100nF SMT capacitors (on the solder side) as well.


Sorry! You're right. Even though I've noted down the trimmers I've forgotten to include them in my BOM. However I totally missed out any the SMT cap. By now I've correctd the BOM but left off those 4 SMT caps which are part of the PSU.

Pls, note the BOM above is corrected. Yet still no connectors nor any PSU related parts.
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Guys, I love you all. Smile
I really appreciate that helpful spirit in this forum, where I can concentrate on those things that only I can do, and others helping with BOMs and debugging.

Thank you!!

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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decaying.sine



Joined: Aug 31, 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

e-grad wrote:
Hopefully a faultless BOM for the Trapezoid. Pls note whether the input/output connectors nor the pots are included. The PSU is not accounted for eiher.

edit: corrected BOM


Thanks for the BOM!

I have one question about the caps. For the non electrolytic caps, are those ceramic disc, metallized polypropylene, or something else?

I always have trouble figuring out what caps are meant to be used when they are the non-electrolytic ones.

Thanks,
Brian
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e-grad



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Since Jürgen has not specified any performance characteristics I will follow the routine:

for small values (pF): ceramic
for bigger values (nF): polyester
and even bigger values (above 1µF): elcos.
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decaying.sine



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

e-grad wrote:
Since Jürgen has not specified any performance characteristics I will follow the routine:

for small values (pF): ceramic
for bigger values (nF): polyester
and even bigger values (above 1µF): elcos.


Thanks. I'll use that as a rule of thumb for other projects too when the type is not specified!
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intercorni



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the BOM! Smile
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emdot_ambient



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

..OK..senior moment...what's an "elcos."?







And BTW, PCBs arrived! rendeer
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e-grad



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

emdot_ambient wrote:
..OK..senior moment...what's an "elcos."?

I thought it a common abbr. for electrolytic capacitors. Sorry.

Is "elcap" common?
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