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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
Body Lunetta
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aerogramma



Joined: Feb 27, 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:36 am    Post subject: Body Lunetta
Subject description: control -well, sort of - your Lunetta with your body
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Hello Lunettaheads,
I need you brains to expand on a concept I'm using a lot when playing live lately.

I've connected two copper plates to 2 of the wipers of a pot in a very simple 4016 base oscillator, when I hold the 2 copper plates in my hands the pitch rise.
If you clench the plates strongly the pitch rises even more.

I trying to have more devices where you can 'body control' or 'close a circuit with your body' sort of action on your lunetta.

Any ideas or simple project I could use to that end?

Loud percussive sounds, tones, loud noise?

thanks!

aero

Very Happy

PS I'll post an attachment as soon as I sort out my reached quota issues

Last edited by aerogramma on Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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rich decibels



Joined: Apr 01, 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

you could use your heartbeat as a trigger: http://www.diyhappy.com/homemade-ekg

or put a ribbon controller on your arm: http://sites.google.com/site/asmidius/home
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tjookum



Joined: May 25, 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

or cover your body in antistatic foam, stick some wires in and start moving like a madman.



It's hard to tell in the video because of crappy soundquality but it works really well.

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aerogramma



Joined: Feb 27, 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

that's very interesting thanks!

but what is antistatic foam and where can someone find it?


I'm also looking for actual circuits and points where to stick my grubby copperplated fingers Smile
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tjookum



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

it's usually used for shipping ic's and protecting them from static electricity. Ive tested several kinds and the best was the 1 cm thick dense foam. I have found shops in the netherlands who sell the weaker kind but no luck on the good stuff yet.

Take a look around in the lunetta forum for some inspiration. There are so many ways to build a CMOS logic synth it all boils down to personal preference. What kind of sound/instrument are you looking for?

Another excellent place and great community for lunetta building is the Sound of Logic forums(formerly called the deathlehem machine):
http://deathlehem.com/php/forums.html

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aerogramma



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:07 pm    Post subject:
Subject description: blu moon lunetta
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cheers!
I've indeed been benefitting from this forum for a long time and built quite a few of the lunettas seen here.

Is the human+plates interaction that eludes me, very probably because I'm so bad at physics. And I need that kind of interaction for the live shows I'm putting on.

The audience is basically an extension of a lunetta machine, but because (I think) the human body is not very good at conducting low voltages the best interaction I can do is the one attached here (thanks to mosc for fixing the attachment issue).

what you hear is the sound of two people holding hands... romantic isn't it?


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richardc64



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Instead of using the human body's conductivity -- which you have already discovered is poor -- to alter a resistance, utilize its dielectric constant (a fancy way to say "poor conductivity",) to alter a capacitance.

The circuit below is from PAIA's Oz Mini Organ. Touching the plate increases the capacitance, lowering the oscillator frequency. The good thing about this is the conductors are insulated with a coat of paint, or tape so that skin is not in direct contact with the circuit. (What happened to all the concern about static discharge damaging CMOS?)

There is a thread about touch switches in the DIY section.
http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?highlight=touch&t=20222

You might also look into how Theremins work.


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tjookum



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

this is turning into a great informative thread, excellent work so far.

Quote:
(What happened to all the concern about static discharge damaging CMOS?)

That, is a very good question. One of the first things I learned about cmos was don't touch them or they will fry and die! Maybe it's because I don't have any carpet in my house but I've been handeling, piling and abusing cmos chips for some time now and so far none have failed. In general it is better to handle them with care and try not to touch them but it's not that they will die instantly. Most of the problems I have seen where with groundingissues, solderjoints and powerproblems.

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aerogramma



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

richardc64 wrote:
Instead of using the human body's conductivity -- which you have already discovered is poor -- to alter a resistance, utilize its dielectric constant (a fancy way to say "poor conductivity",) to alter a capacitance.



thanks for the suggestion richard,
capacitance is something I wanted to invesigate and to be honest I'll to ruminate on your words a little bit longer to fully appreciate your advice.

Just one quick question: what if more than one body is in contact with the plate circuit you suggested eg. a chain of 5 people?

With resistance I found very little change
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richardc64



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
One of the first things I learned about cmos was don't touch them or they will fry and die!


All that cautionary stuff was probably justified when the technology was new. I always regarded wrist-straps and such as being just as overly cautious as putting on rubber gloves before plugging in an appliance or changing a lightbulb. Still, when dealing with an unknown like an audience, better safe than sorry. One zap and show's over.

(REAL DIYers don't wear wrist-straps.)

aerogramma wrote:

Just one quick question: what if more than one body is in contact with the plate circuit you suggested eg. a chain of 5 people?

With resistance I found very little change


A chain of people holding hands, beside making the participants feel all warm and fuzzy inside, would equal large value resistors in series. (I just now measured myself as 6-8MegOhms left hand to right.) A large resistance in parallel with a smaller resistance will have very little effect on the total. To have a greater effect, bodies' resistances would have to be in parallel -- which could be interesting when more than two people are involved.

I'm not certain the above reasoning would hold true for capacitance, but if the dielectric constants of bodies in series add up, then that would equal a smaller capacitance than one body. And a small cap in parallel with a larger one would also have very little effect on the total. In theory. scratch

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aerogramma



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mmm... thanks for the further insight, your findings on resistance more or less mirror what I've measured myself.

maybe I should tackle the challenge from a different perspective, for example:

- how to use the human body as an on/off switch to close a lunetta circuit

- where to break a lunetta circuit so that a human body can restablish it

- how to post amplify the feeble differential in tension passed through a human body before it reaches a lunetta

don't worry i'm not thinking of using myself as a power starve regulator Smile
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stolenfat



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've noticed many cmos chips flip out a bit when you touch their ground pin. Maybe you can wire a screw to the ground pin and surface mount it so you can tap it vibrantly to cause all sorts of unusual unpredictables.
Last edited by stolenfat on Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:04 pm; edited 3 times in total
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stolenfat



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Heres two ideas i scanned. Both diagrams are by mr mimms, considering his devotion to electrical education, i doubt he will mind that they have been posted here in this manner.

Use the switch to advance the clock signal into a 4017, a divider or something.


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aerogramma



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks stolenfat, i'll breadboard them soon, looks like a good starting point Very Happy
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tjookum



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the pressure pad is very similar to what I posted but I think that one will be a lot more responsive and functional.

For a supersimple cmos touchswitch, check this out:
http://www.eleccircuit.com/standard-touch-switch-by-gate-of-ic-4011/

I have build this on breadboard and it works like a charm. You have to touch both contacts but since one is grounded(your entire body?) you could have several pads on your hands,fingers, leggs, etc. to trigger different nand gates.

Logic is by nature perfectly suited for the job, just on and off and no in between. Getting the trigger signals is one part but actually doing something interesting with them is a totally different story.

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There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
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aerogramma



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks tjookum! So you connnect the output to a Nand gate, did I understood it correctly?
I shall breadbord your suggestion soon

I completely agree with your consideration about getting something good out of it... that's the challenge for us Smile
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