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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
BCR2000 / G2 question
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jamos



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:09 pm    Post subject: BCR2000 / G2 question Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Something for the folks who have this combination:

Is it possible to assign a MIDI clock start command to a button on the Behringer box?

I'm using the G2's internal sequencer a lot, but I hate having to switch pages to start or stop the master clock. Using a button on an external box would be handy.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've just received my BCR2000. I have only about 10 minutes behind the wheel. I checked the user manual and yes, you can set a switch(button) to MMC data types for play, pause, stop, fwd, rev, locate, punch in and punch out.

I haven't tried this yet because I'm still getting used to this device. It's probably the most complete MIDI controller I've ever used. This is one hellavah device. As an engineer, I appreciate a well engineered product.

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jamos



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, Mosc - let me know if that works out, k?
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cebec



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

here's a direct link to the latest drivers and beta editor:

http://www.behringer.com/05_support/bc_download/bc_downloads.cfm?lang=eng
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mosc
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cebec wrote:
here's a direct link to the latest drivers and beta editor:

http://www.behringer.com/05_support/bc_download/bc_downloads.cfm?lang=eng


I can't get this software to run on my XP maching. It's - gasp - a Java application. Java says it can't load that applicaton. Has anyone else had any lluck with this program.

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cp



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes it runs fine with a double-click on my OS X machine.

My BCR arrives Monday so I can't actually speak to the
functionality, but all the editing panels and interface
widgets are working fine.

cp
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cebec



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yeah, it works fine for me, too. i use it to load the g2enginesetup.syx -- i think i downloaded the java installation they link to somewhere in one of those pages. maybe you have an older version.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmmm. Been playing with this for days and still can't get it to run. I've uploaded the latest Java 1.5 JRE. I've updated the midi driver. I've updated the the BCR2000 to the latest version of the firmware. When I click on the jar file, I get a loading message. After about a minute, the loading screen disappears - no application.

I'm using windows, XP SP2.

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zynthetix



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i am supposed to get a package in the mail soon, getting the bcr to run will be first priority. is the jar file supposed to contain the entire program or just things for the program to reference? if it is the latter, I would place a copy of it in the same directory as the .exe or .java file for the main program. also check your java RE settings in control panel...incorrect settings have made my machine do weird things before.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, there is no exe file that comes with it. I'll be interested in your experience when you get your device. I'm sure it's something simple. I'm thinking maybe the problem is with JRE 1.5 which I'm running. Maybe it only works with JRE 1.4.2 which, BTW, is what is available on Apple.
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Roland Kuit



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:11 am    Post subject: BCR2000 / G2 question Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I run it with XP, Beta 3 version. No problem. The .Jar file is a sort of exe file. I used the picture as a sortcut on my screen.
Behringer writes:
FREE preset-editor/library program for BCF2000 & BCR2000 and nearly all operating systems
- requires prior installation of free JAVA® Tool (Java 2 Runtime Environment JRE)
- prior installation of BCF/BCR firmware update to version 1.07 recommended!
So maybe that's the case?

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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've got version 1.07 running. The little firmware updater tool they give you worked fine. I'm going to go down to JRE 1.4 and see what happens.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ahhh Haaa! I removed JRE 1.5 update 1 and put up JRE 1.42 and it works.

I give Behringer a thumbs down for not keeping their application up-to-date with the latest version of Java. Boo...
Thumb down

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Roland Kuit



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:49 am    Post subject: BCR2000 Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
Congrats Howard, and now......
start tweaking Laughing
b.t.w. you can use the BCR2000 for controlling
Visual Jockey aswell!

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Rob



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mosc, my two cents on the BCF/BCR utility applet:

The little applet is nice to backup BCF/BCR presets, but programming the BCF/BCR goes very quickly from the box itself. Its good to try it a couple of times so you get the hang of it, its worth it.
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seraph
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rob wrote:
programming the BCF/BCR goes very quickly from the box itself
I don't have any other choice than programming them from the box (being a mac user) but it's straightforward anyway.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rob, I can see you are right. It's really easy to program from the front panel of the box. I'm gropeing with how to set it up.

Ideally, I'd like to use just one Behringer setup, and assign the MIDI CC values to the knobs and switches in the patch. It would be nice if it were possible to have some kind of map between the knobs on the synth and the knobs on the BCR2000. For example, the 4 rows of knobs on the BCR2000 could always correspond to pages B1 thru E1.

Then, playing the G2 with a BCR2000 would be very intuitive. Does that make sense? How do other people assign knobs to MIDI CCs that map to the Behringer?

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Rob



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
<snip
> How do other people assign knobs to MIDI CCs that map to the Behringer?


Well, in my situation, which is a BCF2000, I assign hires NRPNs to the motor faders, each with a range of 1024 values. I made a patch on the G2 that extracts the first group of eight hires NRPNs from a given NRPN bank. (There are 128 banks of 128 hires NRPNs). A resolution of 1024 seems to be about the mechanical resolution of the motor faders. These assignments I copy into every new BCF preset and I copy the G2 subpatch that receives the NRPNs into a new G2 patch. It takes about 10% DSP to get these eight hires signals.
These hires controllers become available as eight control values in the patch, so I can use them to modulate whatever I want, e.g. delay times, a certain frequency range for an osc, etc. I can scale them by letting the hires NRPN control the position of a linear crossfader that crossfades between two Constant module values to get really small ranges of control with a very high resolution within that range. Great when doing e.g. chaotic stuff.

As soon as I have some time to write a proper description on how NRPNs work and how they can be captured in a G2 patch I will publish it along with the patch. But it does need explanation, as only few people have any idea what these NRPNs are about.

Besides the motorfaders on the BCF there are only four times eight encoders left, so its hard to give these fixed meanings. I mainly use the motor faders to play the patches and try to make patches where eight parameters can do it all. Due to the higher resolution this works quite nice.

So, I think there is in practice quite a difference between the BCR and the BCF. Meaning that the BCR seems to address the issue of many parameters while the BCF addresses the issue of a limited amount of parameters with an eightfold increase in precision and the typical visual feedback that long sliders offer. I think the BCR can also send hires NRPNs but you might have to turn the pots many times, so they might lack the speed of the BCF sliders.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You are right. I don't know too much about these NRPN. I would really much like to have a few fine tuners for OSC frequencies and filters. 8 is probably enough. You certainly don't need this high resolution for modulation indexes, envelopes, and that kind of stuff. Oh, that would make up for one huge wart on the G2.

I can't wait to hear how to do this. What should I do to to get this now?

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
You certainly don't need this high resolution for modulation indexes, envelopes, and that kind of stuff. Oh, that would make up for one huge wart on the G2.


Most of the time not, perhaps, but considder long slow morphs. If your envelope would happen to be running during a "step" then glitching is not out of the question. Low resolution leads to large amounts of zipper noise which can be a important consideration in systems involving feedback.

NRPN´s aren´t realy pritty but probably preferable over the ruin of subtile slow changes in carefull compositions. Did I mention before we need OSC to become a standard? I think we do. Most of the time a Constant followed by a Smooth (or whatever they are called these days, I forgot) will do but not always. A smoothing function will only help if you know ahead what speed the changes will be at which make them somewhat unsuitable for improvisation.

CC resolution leads to problems who´s source may not be obvious and it´s way easier to blunder into those then it is to explain the problem or a solution. Personally I feel that as electronic music matures and shreds itself of the limitation of acoustical instruments controlers will slowly gain in importance as note data decreases.

I would, however, agree that most of the time for one channel 8 high res controlers will do but I´d be hesitant to say where those should go for everybody. But then again; I don´t need to. :¬)

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
I don't know too much about these NRPN.


Maybe this helps : http://www.philrees.co.uk/nrpnq.htm .

Jan.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That helps. How do you receive them on the G2?
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jksuperstar



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Must be through CC messeges captured in latches. Which is an excellent idea...I have an old Peavey StudioMix (once distributed with Cakewalk) which outputs NRPNs exclusively, and this might give it a whole new life. Also, it has hi-res motorized faders, which was unheard of 7 years ago.
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Rob



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jksuperstar wrote:
Must be through CC messeges captured in latches. Which is an excellent idea...I have an old Peavey StudioMix (once distributed with Cakewalk) which outputs NRPNs exclusively, and this might give it a whole new life. Also, it has hi-res motorized faders, which was unheard of 7 years ago.


Yep, I made a 'subpatch' that parses the NRPN CC#s. The patch involves flipflops, S&Hs, T&Hs and mux modules and finally outputs eight hires NRPNs, eight because of the muxes. Timing is quite important, as first the bank and register number need to be fully received, recognized and captured, then a mux must be set to a proper output and then the two byte hires value must be received and captured after complete reception.
As I said before, it demands a proper explanation, which might be slightly lengthy. I'll write it down as soon as I have the time to do some proper writing again.( Regrettably time is a scarce commodity for me right now.)
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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rob wrote:
As I said before, it demands a proper explanation, which might be slightly lengthy. I'll write it down as soon as I have the time to do some proper writing again.( Regrettably time is a scarce commodity for me right now.)

That does sound petty complicated. I'll be patient and wait for you to post this patch. Time is a scarce commodity for me right now too. Maybe after June things will lighten up on this end. Wink

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