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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Axoloti - a modern take on the Nord Modular?
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aMUSEd



Joined: Jun 08, 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:41 am    Post subject: Axoloti - a modern take on the Nord Modular? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This looks interesting and very G2 like:

http://axoloti.be

even down to the 8 variant states

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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dorremifasol



Joined: Sep 28, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Looks interesting, though it seems that the DSP power is rather low compared to the G2.
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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dorremifasol wrote:
Looks interesting, though it seems that the DSP power is rather low compared to the G2.


I'm not sure about that, the M4 uses a Harvard architecture, has a single cycle MAC and a full set of DSP instructions. It also supports some limited simd.

A G2 has 4/8 56Ks running at I guess 33Mhz (132/264mhz) while that M4 is running at 168Mhz

So I guess it has more power than an unexpanded G2 and being a newer chip design might perform near an expanded one.

One thing though is that Clavia seem to have some pretty performant code running on those 56ks, I wonder if the developer of Axoliti is as good?
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dorremifasol



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Actually the DSPs on the G2 are running at 150mhz, each one! It was a quite powerful machine for the time.
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Moogulator



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

this time it's all open source - so you could be a dev yourself.
and it's 75€ to get one of those - so might be reasonable compared to a G2 which won't get a successor nor will it ever get to use samples - Axoloti does.

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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dorremifasol wrote:
Actually the DSPs on the G2 are running at 150mhz, each one! It was a quite powerful machine for the time.


I thought it used 56000s which have a max speed of 33, what does it use then?
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varice



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BobTheDog wrote:
dorremifasol wrote:
Actually the DSPs on the G2 are running at 150mhz, each one! It was a quite powerful machine for the time.


I thought it used 56000s which have a max speed of 33, what does it use then?

The DSP chips used in my G2X are a Motorola chip part number DSPB56367PV150, which is designed to run at 150Mhz.

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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

varice wrote:
BobTheDog wrote:
dorremifasol wrote:
Actually the DSPs on the G2 are running at 150mhz, each one! It was a quite powerful machine for the time.


I thought it used 56000s which have a max speed of 33, what does it use then?

The DSP chips used in my G2X are a Motorola chip part number DSPB56367PV150, which is designed to run at 150Mhz.


And there was me thinking how clever the Clavia guys were to squeeze to much out of some 56000s and all the time there was 5 times more grunt than I realised!
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the19thbear



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would love to add more analog controls to the axoloti core. It has a maximum of 16, and i need, say.... 32 or something.

I asked th ecreator about this and got this as a reply:

"There will not be enough on-board analog inputs for 32 pots. However it is possible to add one or multiple adc convertors over spi or i2c.
I have not connected an extra adc, but made some other extensions over spi and i2c."

-I have no idea what that is, so im not doing that;

"Or an analog multiplexer could also be a solution.
That way you're not bound to midi resolution and speed."

I am not really familiar with multiplexers as well (yes im a noob), but remember that demultiplexers/multiplexers where in my jupiter 4, for reading/sending values to/from the CPU in the J4.

How does a multiplexer really work, and is it hard implementing it, to get up to 32 inputs?

THANKS!!!
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A multiplexer really is just an automated switch.

When you have two controls and only one analog input on your controller you can make your software so that it looks at one control for a while, and then at the other for a while.

When this switching is done fast enough, and when the processor keeps track of which control it is currently reading you can have both controls work.

When the control is a potentiometer the switching does not have to be very fast, like 50 or maybe 100 times / s maybe.

Edit: looking at the specs of the thing it looks like the firmware would not have to be modified for the controller to implement multiplexing. But you would have to solder a bit (look at CD4051, 4052, 4053 chips for instance to get some ideas), and would have to use some modules in your patch to control things.

When you want to be sure about this please ask the designer though, I spent only like 10 minutes on this and have no intention myself to do something alike.

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the19thbear



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Makes sense. Seems i can just take any of the arduino add on circuits that use a multiplexer for doing exactly the same thing, and just use it here. The tricky part is to let the software part do what the arduino is doing... is it complicated, the whole scanning thing?

Thanks again:)
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You would need some multiplexing hardware, then go into the box, and then demultiplex there in software. Multiplexing serializes your data for some time you get channel 1, then for a while channel 2, and maybe more channels.

You will need some outputs to control that of course, 2log N control lines for N channels, that is the math where the efficiency comes from ... so for a 4 to 1 multiplexer you need two control lines, and then one data line to get the the multiplexed signal in .. so in total you then have used 3 lines instead of 4 for the unmultiplexed situation, the higher N gets the more lines you will save. The control lines really are just a binary counter.

Your data will come in then in time slots, so internally you will have to unpack that. As your software (which may just be a patch, hopefully) controls the multiplexing it will know at every time what analog channel is currently active on your input.

That information is then used to demultiplex the signal in software, the demultiplexer is just a switch as well, but instead of a many to one it is a one to many. The same information as was used for multiplexing, that binary counter thing, is used for the demultiplexing switches.

At that stage I am a bit uncertain ... I'd need to know details about what module types are implemented .. when a demultiplexer is present it would be easy to just use that, but here the designer of the system, or the documentation of the system, would be needed to fill in the details.

Another aspect would be how to implement the binary counter needed, and how to output it's output lines to the external multiplexer.

And there I can not guide you any further really without reading manuals .. but I hope the general ideas will be enough to get you going.

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ejr27233



Joined: Feb 08, 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've got a design for a SPI based 'knob box'. 2 chips and 80 knobs/switches so it will be very cheap to make on stripboard. I asked Mr Axoloti and he says I'd need to write the SPI controller as a 'module'. This might be a problem as I dont do 'C' but as there are SPI elements written already I may be able to edit something.
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the19thbear



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Do it! Would love to make a polysynth containing samples, and then remodel the rest of the deal with the different vcf/adsr/lfo modules. I just dont want any menues etc, so i need lots of knobs:)

Thanks!
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the19thbear



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So there is a new raspberry pi coming. Said to come with win 10. That thing will have LOTS more processing power. I have never used one. Can you run reaktor etc on it?
I guess my only problem so far with the axoloti is that it seems very underpowered. Don't know how good sounding stuff you can get going on it.
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My guess:

Good luck expecting x86 Windows software to be compatible with an ARM implementation of Windows - think Windows RT.

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the19thbear



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Makes sense:)
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Underpowered compared to what? Some interesting synths run on the 168mhz STM32F4, like PreenFM2, Sonic Potions LXR.

If you want more power at the cost of OS overhead, then just run Linux on a Pi 2.

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