electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Samplers
Roland S-10
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [6 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
elmegil



Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 1838
Location: Chicago
Audio files: 16

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:00 pm    Post subject: Roland S-10
Subject description: trying to do sysex sample dump to the S-10
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have a Roland S-10 I'm reconditioning. Everything that isn't physically broken (QD drive belt Smile ) appears to work, I can sample things and play them back, MIDI IN -> Thru works, MIDI OUT works...

I have QD disks (EBay, and not terribly expensive, either), and a QD Belt on its way. What I'd like to do is dump samples to the keyboard with MIDI SysEx and then save them to disk.

I've read over the Owners Manual MIDI section a couple of times now. I think I'm doing it right, up to a point, but I can't figure out (and the manual doesn't seem to say) what the final step is. Or maybe my MIDI out from my laptop isn't working right, I'm not sure.

I'm running SysEx Librarian on a MAC, with a cheap no-name USB->MIDI interface (which has been proven to work otherwise, i can play other keyboards with it, etc). I have the Roland archives I found online, and the Librarian recognizes them as valid Roland SysEx messages. I've looked at some of the dumps and they do appear to be the correct bytestream (e.g. sysex, roland, channel 1, S-10, send one-way, valid address, data, cksum, end). I've confirmed that I have MIDI set up for channel 1. I initially confirmed that I have Exclusive set to On...but I don't know if that gets reset in a power cycle, if so that could be my problem....I'll have to check that tomorrow.

Here's what I do:

1) power on
2) select a bank
3) Press F1 + MIDI
4) Press FWD twice to get to "One way sample data receive".
discovered by accident that I need to do
5) press ENTER
at which point I get "Wait for Sample Data" (or something, Wait for Data in any case).
6) Tell SysEx Librarian to "play" the sysex data back onto the out port of the USB -> MIDI cable. I can see the activity light blinking.

During this time, there is no change on the keyboard, no "receiving" or anything. That is what makes me want to go back and check that Exclusive isn't being reset when I power cycle (anyone know?).

When Librarian is done, the keyboard doesn't change still. I've tried pressing ENTER, MIDI, F1, F1+MIDI, none of them do anything that I can tell. If I press the bank key again, it says "Cancel" and goes back to the default screen. Of course at that point I have no samples loaded.

So either 1) there's something blocking/screwing up the comms (I did see in the manual that after the first data block or perhaps after each, there's supposed to be a 20ms wait, I don't know if SysEx Librarian honors that) 2) there's something I need to do to "commit" the data that I haven't found in the manual.

Anyone done this successfully? Any magic tips? Smile

Thanks.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
f.larocca



Joined: Jan 21, 2016
Posts: 1
Location: Marlboro, NJ

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Roland S-10
Subject description: trying to do sysex sample dump to the S-10
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,
I realize your post is about 4 years old but wondering if you ever solved this issue and were able to dump samples to your S10. I am having the same problem as you described below with my S10. I'm using the S10 manager posted on the Sgroup website and a MIDI/USB cable. Would appreciate any help. I've had my S10 since it is new and it is in excellent condition. I can load from QDs but can't dump samples from my Windows 7 laptop. I suspect a timing problem but don't know where to start looking without specs or logic analyzer or debug tools.
Thanks,
Frank




elmegil wrote:
I have a Roland S-10 I'm reconditioning. Everything that isn't physically broken (QD drive belt Smile ) appears to work, I can sample things and play them back, MIDI IN -> Thru works, MIDI OUT works...

I have QD disks (EBay, and not terribly expensive, either), and a QD Belt on its way. What I'd like to do is dump samples to the keyboard with MIDI SysEx and then save them to disk.

I've read over the Owners Manual MIDI section a couple of times now. I think I'm doing it right, up to a point, but I can't figure out (and the manual doesn't seem to say) what the final step is. Or maybe my MIDI out from my laptop isn't working right, I'm not sure.

I'm running SysEx Librarian on a MAC, with a cheap no-name USB->MIDI interface (which has been proven to work otherwise, i can play other keyboards with it, etc). I have the Roland archives I found online, and the Librarian recognizes them as valid Roland SysEx messages. I've looked at some of the dumps and they do appear to be the correct bytestream (e.g. sysex, roland, channel 1, S-10, send one-way, valid address, data, cksum, end). I've confirmed that I have MIDI set up for channel 1. I initially confirmed that I have Exclusive set to On...but I don't know if that gets reset in a power cycle, if so that could be my problem....I'll have to check that tomorrow.

Here's what I do:

1) power on
2) select a bank
3) Press F1 + MIDI
4) Press FWD twice to get to "One way sample data receive".
discovered by accident that I need to do
5) press ENTER
at which point I get "Wait for Sample Data" (or something, Wait for Data in any case).
6) Tell SysEx Librarian to "play" the sysex data back onto the out port of the USB -> MIDI cable. I can see the activity light blinking.

During this time, there is no change on the keyboard, no "receiving" or anything. That is what makes me want to go back and check that Exclusive isn't being reset when I power cycle (anyone know?).

When Librarian is done, the keyboard doesn't change still. I've tried pressing ENTER, MIDI, F1, F1+MIDI, none of them do anything that I can tell. If I press the bank key again, it says "Cancel" and goes back to the default screen. Of course at that point I have no samples loaded.

So either 1) there's something blocking/screwing up the comms (I did see in the manual that after the first data block or perhaps after each, there's supposed to be a 20ms wait, I don't know if SysEx Librarian honors that) 2) there's something I need to do to "commit" the data that I haven't found in the manual.

Anyone done this successfully? Any magic tips? Smile

Thanks.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elmegil



Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 1838
Location: Chicago
Audio files: 16

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

At the time I was using a cheap unbranded USB midi adapter. I switched to an m-audio uno, and was able to work with it from there. I don't think I did anything else beyond what I describe here, though it has been a long time. But the cheaper device definitely was having overrun issues.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MusicMan11712



Joined: Aug 08, 2009
Posts: 897
Location: Upstate New York USA
Audio files: 149

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Over the years I have seen a number of issues discussed related to various 1x1 usb midi interfaces. I found a website or two that discussed the issues involved, but I am not sure I posted them here.

IIRC, there have been issues with: inability to both send and receive midi data, inability to handle (or handle properly) sysex data/communication, messed-up handling of running status, etc. Not sure if it's hardware, firmware, computer drivers, or some combination.

Any time I hear of an issue with sysex, the first thing I suggest to test is a different interface. Just my opinion, but it seems to solve a number of problems.

With that in mind, some people have had success with some 1x1 usb interfaces.

Steve

Addendum: See also: http://electro-music.com/forum/post-384317.html#384317
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ghostarbeiter



Joined: Sep 20, 2008
Posts: 14
Location: Beograd, Serbia

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Again, couple of months later (and couple of years from MY latest post)... I just wanted to add that the protocol for sending audio data
(samples) via midi was called (if I recall correctly) SDI, and was usable for relatively small samples - I'd say up to couple of KB... I remember using it on Akai S2000 couple of times, but then acquired HDD, SCSI interface, and forgot about it... The key for the procedure was actually the software on pc side. I remember old SoundForge (up to v6, i think) could do it. Can't say much for anything more modern. Maybe one of those converter programs that were used much with samplers e.g. AWave.
Not sure about capabilities of MIDI/USB interfaces - somehow, I always had a soundcard with MIDI. But I wouldn't be surprised if some of them can't transfer everything needed for this.
I also got myself one of those QD samplers - Roland MKS100, and I'll have to deal with that wretched drive sometime...
Cheers to all
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elmegil



Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 1838
Location: Chicago
Audio files: 16

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ghostarbeiter wrote:
I also got myself one of those QD samplers - Roland MKS100, and I'll have to deal with that wretched drive sometime...
Cheers to all


The drive itself was not a big deal. It took some work to clean the old belt goo off of things, but it was far from the worst job I've had like that.

I'm still hoping the people at HxC2001 will come up with a replacement that uses an SD card or USB drive though.... Been "in the works" for quite a while now. Fingers crossed....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [6 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Samplers
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use