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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
NANDulator
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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:56 pm    Post subject: NANDulator
Subject description: single NAND chip noise machine
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I was wondering if I could use a NAND gate to make 2 oscillators since it has 2 inputs. So I did some experiments
and ended up with the circuit build around U1c/U1d. By itself it can produce modulated sounds, PWM and a sort
of a stepped APC like sound. I didn't want to waste the other 3 gates so I made another one of those circuits,
mixed them together with a 3rd NAND and used the output to modulate another oscillator. resulting in

The NANDulator Cool

I recorded a quick demo which has the NANDulator with some reverb. I'm using trimpots at the moment and I think the 500K
is a bit scratchy so it produced a bit of extra weirdness. You should get much better control with real pots.
And as always: experiment!


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NANDulator schematic
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PHOBoS - NANDulator demo (Apr 04, 2015).mp3
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PHOBoS - NANDulator demo (Apr 04, 2015)

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Last edited by PHOBoS on Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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synaesthesia



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lots of sounds from only a few gates. I love it Very Happy In particular the sounds starting at 9:50 min.
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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm glad you listened to the whole thing, I was quite surprised when it started doing that.
I just put together an easter edition so here are some photos albino


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NANDulator
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pretty wild indeed, nice find!
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autowitch



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That is a whole lot fun from a 4093. I need to play with this.

(Love the Easter version Smile )
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commathe



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have a buddy who was asking for a nasty drone box. I think I found what he's getting Cool
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piedwagtail



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread



Exemplary Easter Exercise!
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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

glad you guys like it Very Happy

(check out the fourth entry here Shocked )

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DUBmatze



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

this is a realy cool circuit!!!
bettern than an apc. google shud route alle apc requests to here.

i think this with a big cap an a "fija"switch produce realy cool "dying" sounds.
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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very Happy

I do really like the APC though,. still want to make a pimped out version of that for which I have been collecting parts over the years.

As for the NANDulator one mod that I didn't test yet but thought about was adding diodes to pins 9 & 13 for some external inputs

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cool Let's help Google a bit then .. NANDulator is way better than APC Laughing
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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In that case let's add Atari Punk Console too in case APC isn't enough Wink
googlebot food: NANDulator NANDulation NANDulate CD4093 4093 quad NAND CMOS DIY electronic noise drone synth synthesizer box free sex machine

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah google is not too smart ...


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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

commathe wrote:
I have a buddy who was asking for a nasty drone box. I think I found what he's getting Cool

You'll probably have to adjust the output to make it suitable for a line level so here's a version with an optional line out.


NANDulator 1.1.gif
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NANDulator v1.1. schematic with optional line out
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NANDulator 1.1.gif



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piedwagtail



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

(tiny pots needing a destination)

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

...looked a little prettier without the output cap/potential divider.

Concept - 50mm x 50mm, all components soldered on bottom of board except 5 pots as shown.
It's probably not small enough to fit in an egg, maybe a large goose egg Wink
The pot terminals could fit 0.1" headers for offboard controls.
Back pcb is my layout of Yves Usson's MinMax...

Robert
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

banana
that's NANDtastic, and very small. well done!

I did test adding diodes to the input pins, well actually I just hooked up my modular lunetta which already has diodes on the outputs,
and that does work. Not really necessary to add that to the PCB though, you can easily solder some wires to it and add the diodes to
whatever connectors you want to use. you could even use a switch to choose between the direction of the diodes.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
that's NANDtastic


Glad you like it.

On next morning viewing, I'm wondering if it would be better to relocate the out/power pins and stick an attenuator there(centre back); if you made multiple instances of the NANDulator it may be musically useful to have an onboard fade. Maybe a second out for headphone monitoring as you mix the NANDulators.

I'd like to see the interactions on oscilloscope(s) to understand the potential of the diode inputs and also what the NANDulator can do in the timing domain rather than the audio domain. Switches...maybe croc pins or bananas. I take it the diode inputs are digital and not analogue sensitive in any way?

Robert
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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

an attenuator on the output would definetly be useful, if you can fit that on there.

With the diodes you can turn the NAND oscillators on/off. If you would connect
them to pins 8/12 in a way so you could force them high (cathodes connected
to the nand pins) they turn into standard oscillators. Or if you connect the diodes
the other way around you can turn them off. you could connect them to all input pins.

I'm wondering myself what it would do using larger caps as a weird LFO thing.

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umschmitt



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is an attempt for a single sided PCB layout for the NANDulator (we might have a go at it with our DIY workshop). Proudly made with my little hands and Inkscape (colours and curves were the same price si i used them!)… It's my first time at it, could someone maybe double check? Also please point any other eventual conceptual mis-design. As one can see i put all outboard connectors on one side, having them sorted by pot, i suppose this is ok? Are the traces too thin (they're .02 in wide)? Maybe just make the ground traces thicker? i also put a capacitor between the power rails, i don't know if it's requested for this very design… Oh well so much noobism.
More generally i would also be very grateful to hear of techniques, do/don'ts etc in this matter of PCB layout design, for instance how to make it more compact and such.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It looks good to me and I love the curvy hand drawn design Razz

If you're not going to use an attenuator on the output add a 10K resistor instead. It works as a voltage divider
together with the 47K resistor to bring the level down. Traces should be wide enough for the (low) current
as long as it doesn't cause any problems with etching. You could make them bigger but keep enough clearance
between the traces and solderpads (to prevent shorts when soldering). I didn't draw a power decoupling
cap but it's a good addition for this circuit. As for making it more compact, with all the pot connections
on one side you'll probably won't get it a lot smaller and a very small PCB is harder to solder anyway.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok thanks for checking! i might well take my chance at etching next sunday.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I breadboarded the NANDulator with 1M pots and uF caps.
Watched it on the 'scope and with a led on the output.

My impression is that the "small instrument live hands-on" approach which you recorded is the best application as it stands. At audio frequencies you can play the changes as such.
At gate rates the knobs have a distinct delay and "conducting a drummer to play an unrelated rhythm and tempo of their choosing" is not really a "playable" option.
Having said that adding voltage control might open up this side of the NANDulator.

Robert
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tadaaa!



(so the layout is ok)
I'll be back with some questions later…


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time to find an enclosure it seems.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Excellent!
It's certainly a work first time design!

I'm currently mulling about a 50x50mm sandwich board layout with pots/mixers on top and headered onto a NANDulator core with optocouplers or jfets (or jumpers for simple application). Top board (jumpered) could be uni or bi-polar.

I see from Royal Mile Research that anti-log pots (or simulated) are the correct resistance curve.


Robert
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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

umschmitt wrote:
Tadaaa!

awesome!

piedwagtail wrote:
I see from Royal Mile Research that anti-log pots (or simulated) are the correct resistance curve.

for the pots attached to pins 6,9 & 13 anti-log would be perfect. I think that linear would be more suitable for the other 2,
but I haven't tested it.

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