electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
Stanley Lunetta - This topic was the first one - Wow!
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: mosc
Page 1 of 3 [51 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: 1, 2, 3 Next

Want to see schematics?
Yes, I want to build a Lunetta myself
85%
 85%  [ 58 ]
Yes, but I'm just curious; probably won't build
11%
 11%  [ 8 ]
No, spare Mosc the work of remembering.
2%
 2%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 68

Author Message
sdcurtin



Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 12
Location: Northville, MI

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:03 pm    Post subject: Stanley Lunetta - This topic was the first one - Wow!
Subject description: information requested
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Howard-

Welcome to MySpace, from that other Mills MFA. I saw in your MySpace blurb that Stanley Lunetta was your mentor and that you worked on a digital synthesizer with him- can you say more about this? He's one of the more interesting instrument builders out there.

Thanks,
Steve C
curtin.emf.org
myspace/stevencurtin


[added poll - mosc Feb 10,2008]

Subject changed by mosc - july 14, 2011
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20685
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 156
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For as long as Howard doesn't kick in ... there are some posts here on the forum mentioning Lunetta, you'll find them using the search function. To me those have been interesting.
_________________
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17620
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry, I didn't see this.

Stan taught us about the joy of the surplus electronics stores, and he was into building really simple digital circuits that clocked at audio rates. For example, you make simple oscillators using digital inverters with RC networks. If you uses NAND gates instead of inverters, you get some sort of neat modulation when you hook up another oscillator to one of the free gate inputs. Run the osc into a modulo-N converter and you can get different pitches based on the code you put on the four inputs.

All these simple circuits, usually just one "naked" IC, are hooked up to banna jacks so you can make patches.

Shift registers were used a lot as were up/down counters, filp flops, and whatever we could find in the surpluss stores. We started with RTL, moved to TTL and then CMOS. Experimentation was the only rule.

Stan was always miffed that we called these instruments Lunettas. He said he felt honored, but he really wasn't the designer of them. He's great attitude made us want to call them Lunettas even more.

Most Lunettas probably don't exist any more because by their very nature they were never finished, but I still have mine. This was one of the fancy ones, included a lot of lights - means buffers - and even had built in stereo amp. Woo woo... Laughing


lunetta.jpg
 Description:
Mosc's Lunetta - circa 1971
 Filesize:  2.21 MB
 Viewed:  350 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

lunetta.jpg



_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Danno Gee Ray



Joined: Sep 25, 2005
Posts: 1343
Location: Telford, PA USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Any way you could share some of the circuit schematics with us? It sounds fascinating.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17620
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Schematics?

We ain't got no stinkin' schematics!


I'll be glad to post something in more detail in the DIY forum if people are sincerely interested. I'd have to draw all the circuits from memory, but they are so very simple it will be easy. Maybe, I'll move this to the DIY forum and see if there is any interest.

Maybe some of the better designers here will get in the spirit of this once they see how it works. The possibilities are pretty unlimited.

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Danno Gee Ray



Joined: Sep 25, 2005
Posts: 1343
Location: Telford, PA USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That would be wonderful!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17620
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fill in the poll at the top of this topic to motivate me. I'd like to see people start building these things. Maybe we could eventually motivate Stan Lunetta to chime in.
_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
GlassX



Joined: Jan 27, 2008
Posts: 50
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't know about building, but I'll probably breadboard some stuff - I have a profound love for simple circuits made with simple parts.

And I'm really curious about this part: "Shift registers were used a lot as were up/down counters, filp flops"... this got my mind thinkin already!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
23isgood



Joined: Nov 18, 2006
Posts: 236
Location: San Francisco, CA bay area
Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm very interested. The second I saw that box with all those bananas and led's and stuff, I was instantly intrigued. Please share the build info.

thanks
pete

_________________
Check out my music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17620
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, as of now, already 5 people said they were interested in building a Lunetta. That's splendid! That's enough for me.
_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
RF



Joined: Mar 23, 2007
Posts: 1493
Location: Northern Minnesota, USA
Audio files: 28

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Awesome, Mosc!
I look forward to seeing and building some of these circuits.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Clack



Joined: Aug 08, 2005
Posts: 436
Location: Seven Sisiters - london
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Its quite hard to understand exactly what it involves, but it sounds interesting.

what kinds of things did you used to do with it?

did you ever record it?

_________________
Clacktronics.co.uk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Alienation



Joined: Jul 23, 2007
Posts: 47
Location: Midsouth

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds interesting, would like to learn more about these. Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fluxmonkey



Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Posts: 696
Location: cleve

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc,

would be greatful for your notes and rememberances.

from yr initial description, sounds similar to much of what Nic Collins presented in Handmade Electronic Music, and simlarly here. have you seen Nic's book?

at any rate, this is fertile ground. my breadboard's all warmed up, and i'm very much looking forward to seeing your examples and following along at home...

best
bbob
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pehr



Joined: Aug 14, 2005
Posts: 1307
Location: Björkvik, Sweden
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This sounds awesome! Very Happy

I've got lots of digital ICs that I don't know what do do with. Cool

EDIT: I'm also a great fan of surplus stores, dumpster diving and using things I have at home Smile

_________________
YouTube channel
flickr photostream
http://loxodrom.blogspot.com
http://www.garageband.com/artist/loxodrom
http://soundcloud.com/loxodrom
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bugbrand



Joined: Nov 27, 2005
Posts: 843
Location: Bristol, UK
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm damn excited by this thread! I'd not heard of Lunetta before, but the picture of Mosc's old system makes me smile! A lot!

I just checked through some old bags of CMOS chips I got off Ebay a while back and have several shift registers - 4014 and 4015 - and a bunch of other things to investigate.

The idea of just throwing things together as quickly as possible (obviously with some background reading / preparation!!) is really inspiring. I reckon a system based around 4000 series logic could be so damn good.

It'd be quite good to have some standardised inputs and outputs for such a system, right? Maybe a stack of comparators (with negative voltage protection etc) on the inputs so you can patch whatever LFOs etc in and then some buffers on the outputs...

Darn, I kind of need to prevent myself getting sidetracked by all the possibilities that this thread throws up! But I did get time to whip out a little schem for a module using the trusty 40106 chip.

Mosc - is this the kind of spirit????


Lunetta_ClockGenerator40106_byBugs.jpg
 Description:
Here's a simple little sketch for some clock generators -- you can, of course, make up to 6 super-simple oscs from a 40106, but I've chosen to show some interesting little extras. Try 'em out!
 Filesize:  105.83 KB
 Viewed:  961 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

Lunetta_ClockGenerator40106_byBugs.jpg



_________________
http://www.bugbrand.co.uk
http://www.bugbrand.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Tim Servo



Joined: Jul 16, 2006
Posts: 924
Location: Silicon Valley
Audio files: 11

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:57 am    Post subject: Stanley Lunetta Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This looks like a fun thread. There's a LOT of fun sounds to be found in simple digital CMOS circuits. Another place to look for inspiration would be the Forrest Mims/Radio Shack "Engineer's Notebook" series.
http://www.amazon.com/Forrest-Mims-Engineers-Notebook/dp/1878707035

http://www.forrestmims.com/

And if you go to the Radio Shack site and look at their Electronics Learning Lab (which looks like it might be a great starting point for newbies), you can download the "Owner's Manual" (containing MANY circuits and breadboard layouts) for free!
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102913&cp

And while you're at it, check out Forrest Mims' personal site (just for grins)
http://www.forrestmims.org/

FINALLY, ONE THING TO REMEMBER ABOUT CMOS LOGIC CHIPS: ALL INPUTS MUST BE CONNECTED TO GND OR +V. DO NOT LEAVE CMOS INPUTS UNCONNECTED OR "FLOATING" AS THIS MAY DAMAGE THE CHIP!!

Sorry for the ALL CAPS, but this is a common mistake when dealing with logic-based sound gizmos. Sometimes it fries the chip, and sometimes it just makes the circuit misbehave and then you spend/waste all sorts of time trying to figure out what the heck went wrong.

Looking forward to seeing some illogical logic from all the new Lunettatics out there!


Tim (Lunettatics... get it?) Servo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17620
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, this is exactly the spirit. Lunettas are more about spirit that the actual circuits. So, I'm committed to going ahead with this thread. Since this is a sub-forum, I request that people start new topics when there is a new idea or question so people how newly come across this later will be better able to make sense out of what is happening.

To be sure, anything goes here. Bugs post about the digital oscillator is choice, IMHO. Those little OSCs are perfect. I'm going to start a new topic about OSCs and we can post designs there. I'll move Bugs topic there. I think once you guys get the spirit of this, then there won't be too much for me to do.

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
andrewF



Joined: Dec 29, 2006
Posts: 1174
Location: australia
Audio files: 4

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Stanley Lunetta Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tim Servo wrote:


FINALLY, ONE THING TO REMEMBER ABOUT CMOS LOGIC CHIPS: ALL INPUTS MUST BE CONNECTED TO GND OR +V. DO NOT LEAVE CMOS INPUTS UNCONNECTED OR "FLOATING" AS THIS MAY DAMAGE THE CHIP!!

Sorry for the ALL CAPS, but this is a common mistake when dealing with logic-based sound gizmos. Sometimes it fries the chip, and sometimes it just makes the circuit misbehave and then you spend/waste all sorts of time trying to figure out what the heck went wrong.


Tim (Lunettatics... get it?) Servo


Very good point Tim
would std procedure around this be to have a pull-up or pull-down resistor, say 100K, on each input?
Mosc wrote they moved from TTL to CMOS, was there some problem with TTL? ...asks Andrew who has over 1000 TTL chips rusting away in the cupboard and would love to use them for something!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20685
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 156
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A link to Stanley Lunetta's Moosack machine : http://www.ubu.com/sound/source.html (nr 8, but there are some more classics there!). It does sound like coming from a Lunetta to me Very Happy
_________________
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20685
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 156
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Some more links :

http://www.o-art.org/history/50s&_60s/DavisScene/StanLunneta/Lunetta60s.html

http://www.o-art.org/history/70's/Composers/Lunetta70s.html

http://www.o-art.org/history/50s&_60s/DavisScene/StanLunneta/MoosackMach..html

http://www.o-art.org/history/50s&_60s/DavisScene/StanLunneta/AMRA_ARMA.html

http://stang.donnerparty.net/stang/

_________________
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
danielwarner



Joined: Dec 18, 2006
Posts: 65
Location: Sacramento

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Maybe we could eventually motivate Stan Lunetta to chime in.


Hey, that'd be great! I just checked out his website and it looks like he's very active in the Sacramento area. Looking at his sculptures, I'm pretty sure I've seen one first hand, at the Crocker Art Museum there was this sculpture with a toggle switch with a spring return, you'd flip it and it would play a pre-recorded cat mew.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
para



Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 276

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
LM: How does your self relate to a machine?

SL: Hmmm. I don't know. I'd like to be a cyborg. I built a series of helmets for Amra Arma. When we perform we do a whole rite. It doesn't make sense for Amra Arma to perform music as music, because what we do is concerned with more than just music. Consequently we don't walk out and bow and wear tuxedos. There are some costumes, lighting, a fog machine--it's like some sort of a weird modernistic pagan rite. So to walk out and play an electronic music machine would make no sense at all. So my performance attire is integral with what it does. I couldn't perform in any other way. The original helmet looked something like a welder's mask, with lights on it and controls that went to the machine. The second helmet was more elaborate. It has tongue-activated keyboards inside. It's a whole different approach to performing. Instead of standing in front of the Machine like a scientist, I'm more like a priest calling on some sort of weird deity.


certainly an interesting fellow.


so am i missing something here. are there any firm "rules", is this ONLY logic / digital based? so even if we can get voltage control or shaping or something else that would cross the line? but then you also posted an analog ringmod, so i'm lost. also apparently things like LDR's are fine?

unless the goal is just simplicity. period.


steven
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4760
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The way I see it,
It's about making a box which makes it easy for anyone to play with patching various simple building blocks (mostly digital) into a complex sound generator. Sort of a "200 in 1 Electronic Music Project Kit". Of course the more robust and "foolproof" the better. So it needs to include protection from potentially damaging patch options. Some kind of graphic layout for the "modules" would be helpful too, but not mandatory. Lots of LEDs which show the state of the "nodes" would be cool. It follows that being able to switch the osc/clocks between audio and LFO rates would be good for experimenting and/or understanding what was going on.
Is that the tree to be barking up Howard? Very Happy

BTW So it would be feasable that there could be a "standard" Lunetta device, or a standard "collection" of blocks in a Lunetta device, and then people could swap "patches".

BTBTW Some well designed input and output blocks would enable the Lunetta device to be patched into any modular synth. A way of doing digital micro engineering of a modular patch.

_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4760
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just thought of a section which could be an R/2R DAC.
"Okay, we take that bit there, that can be the MSB. Now this bit here, (patch, patch) that can be our LSB. Okay, now we take these outputs off those two shift registers, they can be bits 2, 3 and 5. And bit 4 can be the output of this LDR controlled Oscillator."
Man, this could be hella fun! Very Happy Cool

_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: mosc
Page 1 of 3 [51 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: 1, 2, 3 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use