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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » MusicFromOuterSpace.com designs by Ray Wilson
Ring Modulator for the Sound Lab
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Pehr



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:10 am    Post subject: Re: super simple ring modulator Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dnny wrote:
Hi all there is one RM circuit from Aaron Cram

its analog and uses LM13700 (transconductance Amp) + 3 op amps , 8 resistors and 2 pots - thats all! so it´s really super simple

i havent try it yet but, you cant lose anything by breadboarding this

http://www.ori.org/~aaronc/synth/
and scroll down for ring modulator


daniel


Where should the 33k resistor be connected? What is the arrow?

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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The arrow is the positive power supply rail. It is a common convention in schematics. Probably not a great one, but it is often used nevertheless.
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Pehr



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
The arrow is the positive power supply rail. It is a common convention in schematics. Probably not a great one, but it is often used nevertheless.


0k, good. Smile thanks!

More questions:

Where should I connect the modulation input and signal input if I build this into my SL? Confused

Could I use a TL084 along with the LM13700?

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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pehr wrote:

Where should I connect the modulation input and signal input if I build this into my SL? Confused

Maybe use a switch and choose an oscillator and an LFO for the modulation input.

For the signal input, why not go with the output of the SL itself?

Could I use a TL084 along with the LM13700?[/quote]

I would think any garden variety op amp would work.

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dnny



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ray has updated this Ring Modulator to his page.
it uses the AD633JN.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

that's a nice and simple design Ray Smile Will it work with SoundLab's +/- 9v range?

(cheers for the link dnny Smile )
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mosc
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Check out the data sheet. http://www.ece.ucsb.edu/courses/ECE002/2C_Su05Makaremi/ad633_b.pdf

There are a lot of good design examples, including the AGC addition which would be nice to have in a live preformance instrument.

Note that the minimum power supply is +- 8V. Smile

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Pehr



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What if the signal input comes from a microphone and the modulation from a VCO? what happens?

The LM13700-ring modulator is perfect since the SL uses 1½ of its 2 LM13700s (see IC3) Cool

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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pehr wrote:
What if the signal input comes from a microphone and the modulation from a VCO? what happens?

You get classic ring modulator sounds. Try it, you'll like it...

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Pehr



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Like a vocoder?
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

More like short wave radio speech sounds.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pehr wrote:
Like a vocoder?


If you use a square wave around 4 to 15 Hz you get the classic Dr Who 'Dalek'

not only that- it sounds rather disturbing- way better than your average boring old vocoder Wink

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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Isn't that Flakey Foont? Razz

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Isn't that Flakey Foont? Razz


Possibly? I'm a bit flakey myself at the best of times!

I did a search on Robert Crumb and Google came back with this. (originally I wanted his 'Stoned Again' image- but I thought this was more appropriate Very Happy )

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fluxmonkey



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pehr wrote:
What if the signal input comes from a microphone and the modulation from a VCO? what happens?


i think you'd need to add some amplification to the mike signal... you want both signal and carrier to be at comparable levels.


b
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adhdboy



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:38 am    Post subject: Ring Modulator with AD633 for about 6 bucks and 6 mAs
Subject description: Here is the simplest AD633 ring mod you will find.
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Hi All

I finally got around to the AD633 and its very cool. There are definitely more precision circuits out there but this one is very simple and only uses about 6 mA. The chip is very accurate straight out of the shoot thus I skipped all of the offset nulling, balancing, yada yada etc. It is not DC coupled but the 2uF caps on the inputs are so you can pass from very low freq AC signals to very high ones. I show +/-12V but it will work from +/-9 to +/-15 volts.

http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/RingModulator/RingModulator.html

Cheers

adhdboy

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Lorenzo



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:13 am    Post subject: Re: super simple ring modulator Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hallo,
I try to built this ring modulator: WARP633

Looking .pdf shematic v.a.1 I don't understand how is connect the CONN H5.

I notice that the AD633 is used in a different way from the MFOS Simple Ring Modulator...

My prototipe seems not work... Embarassed
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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's what I think:

On H5,

connect 1 and 2
connect 3 and 4

See how that works. I'm not exactly sure what pin 5 is for, but I would leave it unconnected.

The two different circuits are pretty similar. Instead of the Multiply/Modulate switch on the MFOS link, the one you are using uses RV5 for this function. The pot is better because you get a continual adjustment. I would call it MIX/BLEND. IMHO, the warp633 circuit is superior because it has buffered inputs, AC/DC coupling, a blend control, and buffered output. Good choice.

I don't think you need the two trim pots, RV3 and RV4, because the 633 is laser trimmed. If you don't use them, just connect the ends of R5 and R7 to GND.

Hope this helps.

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Lorenzo



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Here's what I think:

On H5,

connect 1 and 2
connect 3 and 4

See how that works. I'm not exactly sure what pin 5 is for, but I would leave it unconnected.



Thank you for your kindly reply.

I thought H5 connect 2 to 1 and 5 in ON-OFF-ON mode, and 3 with 4.

I built and re-built it but I think I'm makeing some mistake... Embarassed
maybe some value for R or C...
or too difficoult for fledgeling... Laughing

You think that the schematic is good done?
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stolenfat



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i was turned onto the AD633 because it seems like the main chip in ray's ring mod

jameco sells them for 9 bucks a pop, is there a cheaper place to find them? 9 bux! I think thats whacky!
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guitarfool



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Marc covers it in the docs that he ships with his PCB. Also this was discussed in this thread a while back

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-15022-0.html&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Very Happy
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Lorenzo



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

guitarfool wrote:
Marc covers it in the docs that he ships with his PCB. Also this was discussed in this thread a while back


Thank you!!
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RKHobbs



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You can buy direct from www.analog.com. Might be worth it if you want some other things (like the matched transistor pairs for Ray's VCO.)
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shimshon



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

stolenfat wrote:
jameco sells them for 9 bucks a pop, is there a cheaper place to find them? 9 bux! I think thats whacky!


they're on "sale" for 7.75 now Confused

does anybody have the schematic for the 13700 based ring mod? the link mentioned earlier no longer works.

thanks
vito
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RF



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

[quote="shimshon"
does anybody have the schematic for the 13700 based ring mod? the link mentioned earlier no longer works.
thanks
vito[/quote]

http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Ring%20Modulators%20and%20Frequency%20Shifters/LM13700%20ring%20mod.pdf

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