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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Nord Modular g1 vs g2 with sounds examples !
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sovietpop



Joined: Jun 28, 2009
Posts: 15
Location: Quebec

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:57 pm    Post subject: Nord Modular g1 vs g2 with sounds examples !
Subject description: Nord Modular g1 vs g2 with sounds examples !
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I will update the description later so you can identify which Nord is playing.
I've used g1 converted patch (using the excellent g2tools) so patch are not always 100% identical but close enough.
You have the first Nord playing a sequence followed by the same sequence played with the other Nord

https://soundcloud.com/sovietpop-1/nord-modular-g1-vs-nord-modular-g2
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jonah



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g1 then g2?

i'm still looking for a g2 so i dunno.

the 1st seems to have more bass/mid and the 2nd more detail in the highs, especially on sounds that sounded like they used some kind of chorus or reverb effect, but with those types of sounds the mids seem like they are stereo panned or something.
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sovietpop



Joined: Jun 28, 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

@ jonah
Hi,
Sometime the G2 is the first sometime its the G1.
the first 6 sequences :
1-g1 g2
2- g2 g1
3- g1 g2
4- g2 g1
5 - g1 g2
6 g2 g1

I will update the file because i realized the audio clip is too long.
On the new file the g1 will always be the first followed by the G2
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sovietpop



Joined: Jun 28, 2009
Posts: 15
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The reason why, at first, i've chosen to alternate between the G1 and the G2 randomly it's because most of the time people have a hard time to listen objectively. Anyway the new demo is there . G1 first followed by the g2.

https://soundcloud.com/sovietpop-1/nord-modular-g1-vs-nord-modular-g2-new-file
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jonah



Joined: Sep 29, 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oh, i forgot to say, thanks for doing this. Smile

haha, about it switching, i was wondering. that makes sense. for most of them i didn't hear anything. or it was like 2 models of the same analog synth.

i wonder which modules and types of modulation make the most difference? with the g1 i do a lot of modulation signals in the audio range and fm.

the one a 5:30 i got the 1st time. thats the only one i hear a really big difference. but i like them both.

in a few the g2 is a lot louder and that fooled me. the last example, at 940, some others. if i manually lower the volume for the g2 i can't tell, but i think when i listened before in cases where the g1 was after the g2 i felt like the g1 had more detail and i assumed it was the g2, haha, but that's really a psycho acoustics thing. i wonder if the loudness difference is because of the patch conversion or the g2 is just louder?

also, i think there is a way to add markers to sound cloud to separate sections? the problem i had originally was "rewinding" to the correct spot on each example to relisten.
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3phase



Joined: Jul 27, 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi, what is purpose of this comparison?
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sovietpop



Joined: Jun 28, 2009
Posts: 15
Location: Quebec

PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:
Hi, what is purpose of this comparison?


Because i've heard a lot that the g1 and the g2 are supposed to sounds really different and that the g2 is so sterile compared to the g1.
I was just curious and i didn't find any comparison on the internet.
Its not about which one is better of course because both synth are fabulous.
Anyway i think they mostly have the same character though some patch sounds different.
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Electromagnetic Wave



Joined: Apr 28, 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I remember to see this kind of comparison in the past ... but people was stopping because they can not compare difference (with precision) from audio compressed into .mp3 or others low rate format. And what do you use to record ? Result could be different from an instalation to another one.
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Really subtle but very interesting differences. The resonance modelling seems to have changed somewhat.

The G2 has more of a low-mid range bump happening. Sometimes this gives a patch more punch, other times it's overbearing.

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Moody33



Joined: Apr 28, 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I own a micro modular and a g2 engine. The output of the g2 run at 24 bits and the g1 at 18 bits. It makes a difference because the dynamic range is not the same. That's why I love the g1 sound, it's a fat cat. To hear the difference you need good monitoring and a dynamic playing. I guess that's the only difference between the two synth about how they sound.
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Tim Kleinert



Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Moody33 wrote:
I own a micro modular and a g2 engine. The output of the g2 run at 24 bits and the g1 at 18 bits. It makes a difference because the dynamic range is not the same. That's why I love the g1 sound, it's a fat cat. To hear the difference you need good monitoring and a dynamic playing. I guess that's the only difference between the two synth about how they sound.

The difference of 6 bits only means that the G1 has a 36dB louder noise floor.

(...except when you use the G2 reverb module. Laughing Then the coin flips, because that thing has something funky going on in its feedback loops, causing the tails not to fade to total silence but to settle into a static hiss. Another G2 "feature" Mr. Green )

If the G1 sounds different, then it's because it uses different algorithms.

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Moody33



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tim wrote

Quote:
If the G1 sounds different, then it's because it uses different algorithms.


Probably, I really don't know. Have you got any source/info about this?

Quote:
The difference of 6 bits only means that the G1 has a 36dB louder noise floor.


I think bit depth affect the Signal to Noise Ratio AND the dynamic range. Not sure if it's really audible between 18 bits and 24 bits however.

But I don't care, I definitely love the g1 sound...even if I hate the lack of modules. DIY with the G1 is very hard to do. Sometimes it works...
Do you owned a G1 tim?
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Moody33 wrote:
Tim wrote

Quote:
If the G1 sounds different, then it's because it uses different algorithms.


Probably, I really don't know. Have you got any source/info about this?

I cleary remember Rob Hordijk (who was consultant and alpha tester for the G2) mentioning the reworking of the algorithms (either on the old NM mailing list or maybe even here on this board), resulting in less aliasing in the oscillators and other things. But that was way back when the G2 was brand-new. Ten years already. Shocked

Moody33 wrote:

I think bit depth affect the Signal to Noise Ratio AND the dynamic range. Not sure if it's really audible between 18 bits and 24 bits however.

It surely does affect the S/N and the dynamic range. Because the S/N is the dynamic range. Mr. Green That's one of the fundamentals of digital audio. Wink

Moody33 wrote:
Do you owned a G1 tim?

Unfortunately not. I always keep reading good things about its tone and almost pulled the trigger a few times on a well-kept unit, but ultimately just couldn't justify the expense because I don't really need it. I don't even use the G2 as much as I used to. Embarassed

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Moody33



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:37 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for your answer Tim.


Tim wrote:
Quote:
Because the S/N is the dynamic range.


Technically speaking, the SNR is not the dynamic range. And that's why the first is call "SNR" and the other "dynamic range".

For more info you can read this article: http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/dynamic_range_and_signal_to_noise_ratios/


Quote:
I don't even use the G2 as much as I used to.


So no patching in sight ? Sad
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Moody33 wrote:

Technically speaking, the SNR is not the dynamic range. And that's why the first is call "SNR" and the other "dynamic range".

I'm sorry, but in digital audio, it is. Smile

Moody33 wrote:
For more info you can read this article: http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/dynamic_range_and_signal_to_noise_ratios/

This article is about analog equipment, which is a completely different matter.

In a correctly implemented digital system (dither), S/N and dynamic range are interchangeable.

The alleged "punchiness" of earlier digital equipment with lower dynamic range (eg. AKAI MPC 60, Roland S50, Yamaha DX7 etc.) comes from their algorithms and the sound of their early DACs, not because they "use less bits".

Modern DACs are transparent and have been for at least 15 years. (Except if one wants to believe in high-end voodoo. And can afford it. Mr. Green) So the sonic character of modern digital gear comes exclusively from the algorithms used.

Moody33 wrote:
So no patching in sight ? Sad

I still have some ideas. But I'm slowly outgrowing the G2 -I need unlimited modules, mathematical functions, real-world numerical system and parametrisation, oversampling and interpolation options ... and a delay module that doesn't crackle. Mr. Green I find myself using Reaktor more and more. Bidule for some stuff too.

For live use the G2 remains unbeatable though.

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Moody33



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
This article is about analog equipment, which is a completely different matter.


Embarassed

So sorry.


Quote:
I find myself using Reaktor more and more. Bidule for some stuff too.


Clavia is responsible ! Evil or Very Mad
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iPassenger



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tim using Reaktor!?! Shocked Shocked Twisted Evil

I am thinking this could result in some bad-ass sample destroying madness.

Have you come up with anything yet? Reaktor is insanely powerful but it is a much slower work environment, it doesn't feel quite like coding but is a long way from the, "lets just sling these wires around", approach you have with the G2. Miss my G2 for that. Sad

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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nothing glamorous at the moment, just small patches here and there that do little things that no commercially available plugin does, just for personal use. Really appreciate having a modular platform within a DAW ITB environment.

Have to disagree about the apparent slower workflow. It only seems that way in the beginning. Once you get the hang of the way you can nest things and consolidate frequently needed functionalities into macros which you can re-use anywhere, the coin flips and it actually becomes faster to use, especially within more complex and elaborate designs. Love it. And especially the "Low Level-ness" of Core technology totally appeals to me, actually more so than the conventional system. But I still have a tremendous amount to learn there.

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iPassenger



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ahh cool, I think my disorganisation is the problem then. Smile

Have made a few weird synth and learning experiments and would love to get into the core stuff but it scares me a bit, done a few tutorials but just going it solo is too much for me.

I've mainly been trying to make odd seq stuff but some of the midi out behaviour has been odd at times.

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xav



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I like that shootout. It made me curious about your music, and I'm listening other songs you made. I love that.
About the differences:
Not so many I though; hard to find them. 0:38, there is a stereo effect or more wideness in the G2.
I remember I noticed something weird when I tried myself to figure differences between micro modular and G2 : I think the saw wave is in the opposite direction. I don't like to affirm something I cannot verify right now (I don't have any more micro modular editor)... But if it is true, it could also result in different transcriptions.
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sovietpop



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks xav Smile

I guess i am going to keep both Nords but i am using the G2 more and more because of the more friendly user GUI.
The interface is just brilliant and its amazing as a midi controller too.
I've programmed a sequencer patch where i can advances step with a foot pedal and program sequence on the fly while playing with a drummer. I can send program change , midi control etc to control my external gears when playing with other peoples etc.

Wonderfull machine.
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xav



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Waw, it seems interesting. But how do you program sequences on the fly? You program next sequence?
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sebber



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks! This eases quite some pain because I have always thought: "Damn, that G2 is nice, if it only had the grittiness of the G1" Smile
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Electromagnetic Wave



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
The interface is just brilliant and its amazing as a midi controller too.

oh yeah!!

Quote:
do you program sequences on the fly? You program next sequence?


I think he can fix a value for the actual step ... everytime he advances step with a foot pedal. Tell me if Im wrong.


sovietpop you are from Kebek city ?! Smile
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sovietpop



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

[quote="Electromagnetic Wave"]
Quote:


sovietpop you are from Kebek city ?! Smile


Electromagnetic Wave : Yes im from Quebec city.
Are you ? Very Happy

xav : Its a simple patch really .
I am just using a foot pedal to advance steps and every time i press record i can enter the steps in real time. Some additional tweaking to reset a sequence if i change note, always record at the start of the pattern, stop recording when setting the last step of the pattern etc.
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