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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
1.4 update
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3phase



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jksuperstar wrote:
Is Clavia struggling financially? Just out of curiousity...it seems most of their efforts have been attempts at marketing / publicising the Nord products, rather than developing new fangled toys.

Don't get me wrong, this feature seems like it could be fun (if it's true), especially during moments of creative duress.

But the last 6 months have seen (from where I stand) more effort on the Modular Demo, than on the modular itself. This might not be true, and some kind of major update might be in the pipe somewhere... shit. I forgot what my point was.


I think developing a G2 a G2 x and a nord stage and a few things more within 24 month and bring them to the market inklusiv the os x editor that wasnt planed initially (thanks god)... is quite some work and especially investment for a small company like clavia..
the break even happens after the development time..maybe the G2 just has amortized his development costs and brings profit now while the nordstage needs some time to come to be profit..
Clavia is not yamaha or roland...
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:

now we need a topic called: "what makes a sound a "good sound" :twisted: or even better: a sub-forum :wink:


Maybe, but whatever would be written there it wouldnt be a "good sound" :-)

Jan.
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3phase



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

W.T. wrote:
mosc wrote:
Personally, I'd rather have a fixed filter bank and binary up/down counter with asynchronous preset modules......

.


I could not agree more on this.
It is nice to have a usefull random tool but i rather would like to see some more math tools and some better sequencer(s)
And some sampling / granular ....... Very Happy
I know. . . . . only a dream Shocked


??? ok..i think knob exclusion on parameterchange, midimodule send on/of flag
help the daily work with the G2 more than 2 new modules.

However a patch mutator is the bigest bang for the bug for clavia because it allows the blind to do own sounds with the nord modular..
a thing that was before exclusivly in the hands of expert synthesists.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:
However a patch mutator is the bigest bang for the bug for clavia because it allows the blind to do own sounds with the nord modular..
a thing that was before exclusivly in the hands of expert synthesists.

Umm, there are blind people who are expert synthesists. Idea

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windchill



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have to be honest here. The main feature of update 1.4, what appears to be a glorified patch randomiser, is probably as much use to me as a lawn mower on a boat. Just about anything from this forum's G2 wish-list would be a higher priority for me than that.
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jamos



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

windchill wrote:
I have to be honest here. The main feature of update 1.4, what appears to be a glorified patch randomiser, is probably as much use to me as a lawn mower on a boat. Just about anything from this forum's G2 wish-list would be a higher priority for me than that.


Ditto. Hope there's more.
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You can count me in too.

Stuff like "send all CC#s on patch/variation/perf change" or a 24 bit mode for delays is way more important than this. This is a gimmick in my book. I want to tweak my patches myself, thank you, rather than have some weird algorithm do it for me.

What use is an algorithm that even might come up with good sounding variations, if I don't understand how it did it? And if I do, do I really need this algorithm?

It reminds me of a statement by Picasso:

"Computers are useless. They only produce anwers."

No, really! I have to side with Kassen here (gee Wink): I don't like the route the G2 is taking -at least on this issue.

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W.T.



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

[quote="jamos"]
windchill wrote:
I have to be honest here. The main feature of update 1.4, what appears to be a glorified patch randomiser, is probably as much use to me as a lawn mower on a boat. Just about anything from this forum's G2 wish-list would be a higher priority for me than that.


same here . . . don't see much use either.
It is a modular synth, so like to build my own sound.
Some more building tools, that would be a update.

But perhaps they will.......
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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

[quote="W.T."]
jamos wrote:
windchill wrote:
I have to be honest here. The main feature of update 1.4, what appears to be a glorified patch randomiser, is probably as much use to me as a lawn mower on a boat. Just about anything from this forum's G2 wish-list would be a higher priority for me than that.


same here . . . don't see much use either.
It is a modular synth, so like to build my own sound.
Some more building tools, that would be a update.

But perhaps they will.......


I guess I'm not alone.

Not to diminish Clavia's efforts, but I could probably come up with a list a few features I'd rather have in the editor or modules.

Patch randomiser's have been in a few midi patch editors over the years, and I really wonder how many people used them.

Quite some time ago, I had sent an email to To support requesting a simple change to allow the user to Edit the Categories. They agreed it "should" be a simple changed, but didn't commit to anything.
While this does nothing for sound generation or performing live, it would help with patch organization.
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Hyde



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm just tired of WAITING. It's like advertising a movie a year in advance. Why bother? If they'd just sprung it on us it would have been better than whetting (some) of our appetites and then taking their sweet-___ time.
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seraph
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

windchill wrote:
I have to be honest here. The main feature of update 1.4, what appears to be a glorified patch randomiser, is probably as much use to me as a lawn mower on a boat. Just about anything from this forum's G2 wish-list would be a higher priority for me than that.

I guess this is a marketing move to make the machine more appealing to new comers who can be scared of programming it.

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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
windchill wrote:
I have to be honest here. The main feature of update 1.4, what appears to be a glorified patch randomiser, is probably as much use to me as a lawn mower on a boat. Just about anything from this forum's G2 wish-list would be a higher priority for me than that.

I guess this is a marketing move to make the machine more appealing to new comers who can be scared of programming it.


Bingo!

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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If I can speculate, I think this new feature is a confluence of Pella and Clavia being colocated. Maybe it is a marriage of opportunity. I can't imagine this is the result of marketing. Confused - look at the posts here. Shocked

Still, I have a feeling that one year after this thing is released, we will be pleasantly surprised at how much more useful it is than we thought it would be.

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deknow



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yes, there were some aspects of this feature that were not apparant to me after the lecture (rob clarified some things that made me a convert...no disrespect to pella, there were just a few things that weren't immediately clear in the presnetation, but that he addressed in the actual software).

1. the true "random" aspect is probably not all that useful, just as true randomization isn't that useful when trying to breed a specific color of orchid....it's the "cross polination" that is the key.

2. although there isn't a way to "lock" parameters durring randomization, when you cross 2 variations of the same patch (you can't cross patches that don't have the same modules and connections) using the genetics, only the settings that are differant between the 2 will be changed. if your patch has, for instance, a set of modules whos settings are integral to the sound and they don't vary between the 2 variations you are crossing, then they will remain constant in the offspring patches....only those parameters that differ will change.

3. pella's demonstration on a relatively simple patch convinced me that i will be able to make my own patches sound better in less time than i can by tweaking by hand...in fact, a sightly differant approach for making the orignals might be in order...making patches specifically to cross rather than making "the best sounding" versions....setting the variables that i want to change in their usable extremes might be faster and more useful than setting them at "ideal sonic" settings. not currently a standard approach to modular synthsis, mostly because it hasn't been practical in the past. this is exciting to me.

i also would like to see some other changes in the os, but i agree with howard, i think that for those that give this a fair shake, and are willing to modify their workflow to take advantage of this feature will benefit greatly.

deknow
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:

Still, I have a feeling that one year after this thing is released, we will be pleasantly surprised at how much more useful it is than we thought it would be.


Same feeling here, I'm a believer :-)

And as said before, I'd like to see wishlist items being implemented as well, but that's another thing, which has nothing to do with the usefullness (or uselessnes when you like that better) of this breeder thingy.

Maybe one to add to the wishlist, together with the patch breeder - a copy params to all variations for selected modules function, as a popup menu item.

Jan.
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audiothingy



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:27 am    Post subject: news from 1.40 from clavia Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

im sure yall been writting emails everyday n night since 2 month about the 1.40 version , so today tired of checking their webpage every day i wrote this to clavia support team :

Quote:
hello , i was looking on your website, the announce for the G2 1.40
> revision was supposed to came out a long time ago according to your
> website.
>
> i know its been postponed , but to when? you at clavia are too focused on
> the nord stage n stage kb product line n are not very interested no more
> with the G2 user comunity ? i m sure when you sell 10 nord kb yo sell only
> 1g2...
>
> is it what some people call vaporware?


n i had this very quick reply few hours later. i dont says nothing but at least no vaporware, here is what they wrote back to me :

Quote:
Hello, dont worry it will be released but i have no date yet, it is true that the stage still takes most efforts over here, im sure there will soon be more time for 1.40, thanks
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seraph
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

deknow wrote:
the true "random" aspect is probably not all that useful
I remember those synth editors by Dr.T's, in the '80s, featuring something like that. you could select which parameters to randomize but interesting results were unlikely Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tim wrote:

They advertise the G2 as a 24 bit machine, and they also advertise it (among other things) as a synth capable of physical modelling. But nowhere is there a big warning sign: Attention! Using delay lines reduces audio bandwidth to 16 bits!.


Using delay lines does not reduce audio resolution (bandwidth is not the correct expression here) to 16 bit. Everything except the delay memory is always working with a bit depth of 24 bits, using a delay line does not change or reconfigure this.

What happens when audio is routed through a delay line is that the least significant 8 bits of the 24 bits are set to zero (as they simply cannot pass the delay line). However, subsequent audio processing like filtering or attenuation of the delayed signal does again use those 8 least significant bits and is fully 24 bit again.

In the same way one cannot postulate that using the bit quantizer module reduces the system to 5 bits when this module is set to quantize a signal to five bits. As again what happens is that some of the 24 bits are simply set to zero, but there are still 24 bits in use.

Sorry Tim. If you want Clavia to rephrase, I guess you should rephrase as well.

And although the module set includes only one 'waveguide' module (the string oscillator module), it is very well possible to patch a lot of physical models.
Note that the G2 is a modular synthesizer, which implies one should do a lot of patching oneself, including physical models. Which of course is an art in itself and maybe an art that is not easy to master. But imho that is the essence and charm of a modular system: instant satisfaction is not guaranteed, but in the long run one can go way beyond anything else.

And imho patching is in itself definitely a form of art. I think that modular synthesis can be loosely compared to painting, as opposed to e.g. photography. It is very hard to paint in a realistic style, and when photography was invented painting evolved quite naturally to the more abstract styles that are so common in art today. The idea to strive for realistic renderings of existing musical instruments by using modular synthesis (the 'Wendy syndrome') imho became obsolete the moment sampling became widely available. Which freed modular synthesis to go the same more abstract roads as painting did some 100 years ago.
Just like the sound, look and feel of a grand piano can only be obtained by using a grand piano and nothing else, modular synthesis like on the G2 has its own inherent right of existence.

Of course I only disagree with you in a friendly way, it is only good if we have different opinions. So, please read this post as only my arguments in an open discussion and not as a personal attack, as it is not. Very Happy

/Rob
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Rob



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What seems to be a very practical feature of the patch mutator is for when there is little time in the studio to search for a specific sound. Like a situation where there are two bass sounds selected, both come close to what is needed but neither is really good. Probably what is needed in the song is a sound something in between. The patch mutator will allow to almost instantly create a whole array of bass sounds that lend features from one or the other two originally selected bass sounds, and the chance that one of the mutations is more useful for the song is dramatically increased, avoiding the need to search in a huge sound library (which costs a lot of time => studio rent).

This may sound like a trivial application, but I know for sure that it can be a huge time and money saver during a production.
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't think Tim was refering to system-wide bandwith; only to the bandwith of the signal that goes through the delay line. If read like that he is right; this should simply be in the specs because it makes the G2 entirely unsuitable for some aplications that it might look well suited for in the specs. Clavia's advertising is misleading here in ways unsuitable for porfesional instruments.

Of cource I agree that patching is a art but I'd like to look at it a little differently. Here you imply that working around the limitations of the G2 is a part of the art and indeed I agree, but another part of the art is choosing the right material for the work you want to do. Much like a graphical artis will pick a technique and material fromt he range of materials available to him (for example, oilpaints, waterpaints, chacoal, and photshop) and might be looking into investing (both finantially and in time to grow proficient) in new materials and techniques a sound artist will also choose the right tool for the right job.

At that point you need the right information, particularly because artists are typically short on both money and time. If a storekeeper would convince you oilpaints are well suited for working quickly and you buy them based on that you have a problem. At that point you may have invested so much that -say- Photoshop is out of your finantial range which might result in all sorts of further problems, both finantiall and artistically.

Clavia makes wonderfull instruments and I considder them amongst the most interesting manifacturers of hardware but their comunication to customers is seriously lacking. Artists, to continue your analogy, are acustomed to wrking with systems that are less then perfect for the job, partially because artists, perhaps mor ethen any other field of work, tend to work in highly unusual ways. From this persepctive I think it'd be much more apropriate for Clavia to be more upfront about the limitations of their systems. Ithink it's acceptable for materials to have limitations, it's even asumed, but those limitations should be clear. You should not claim you make instruments that last a lifetime and promise bug-fix updates, then discontinue the instrument. You should not claim the whole system is 24 bits if it isn't. If you do things like that your overall credibility will suffer. I for one would not take claims for further updates to the G2 since Clavia is known to lie about further updates. I might *hope* for one or have some amount of confidence there will be one, but I wouldn't take those claims at face value anymore since Clavia lied to me about this in the past.

Clavia prommises "True 24 bit processing system with 96 kHz sampling rate." (source; www.clavia.se), this means they have a obligation to deliver this, both morraly and according to the law. It seems that they anticipate complaints (and possibly court cases) on this since they include the " Specifications subject to change without notice" disclaimer (source; www.clavia.se). I firmly believe in being open and honest, particularly in artistic matters and Clavia is severely hurting their own position here while a different additude that need not actually cost more would shine on them. They could simply say that the delay lines are 16 bit; that's much better then not having delays at all. They could also simply explain that while the G2 is indeed capable of physical modeling this more of a side effect of the module set and that it's not especially well suited for this. This is nothing to be embarased about; it can also do some convolution but it's not exceptionally strong at that either. It need not be perfect for everything at all. As everywhere; panacea's are to be distrusted and artists typically do anyway. Would you purchace a fineliner marketed as being well suited for painintg skys in works of 1m² and up?

This is not acceptable behaviour to me; particularly where it involves such personal topics as emotional expression. Clavia's additude towards it's customers has severely soiled my emotional attachment to my own NM. As you yourself pointed out at many times; it's much more pleasant doing business with people who are honest and open.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey, the G2 is software, so if we scream enough, they could change it. Note, Clavia is a small shop, so anything they do takes time, and thus their priorities are quite scrutinized. I and you may not agree with them, but they have to do what it takes to survive (and the G2 market is a niche, a very cool niche). Hey, I do not like this myself, especially since I am a sound designer / tester for them. It is frustrating when many good ideas get omitted.

FYI, I have asked them to make the following changes to the delay & reverb modules (where you pick how much time/RAM the module will take):

1. add a sampling rate / bit dropdown combos. You could pick
a. sampling rate 96k/88k/48k/44k/32k/22k
b. 24bits/16bits/8bits

Changing these would increase the amount of delay time you get (note, the internal processing is always 24bit, I'm talking about storage only)

2. include a sampling rate knob (which would go as high as the sampling rate picked in the picker, and as low as 0Hz) , thus allowing for some cool sampling rate modulation fx (not just delay time/fb/ etc).

Kassen, I hope you agree with me this time.
/Dasz

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I agree those are nice features but I was mainly adressing the stance Clavia takes here on a comunicative level, not on a technological one. Comunication problems, like all social ones, are exceptionally hard to fix with technological measures. Trust, like respect, is notoriously hard to win back.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen,

I do wholeheartedly agree about the lack of communication on Clavia's part. This could be a cultural thing (although I do not know how quickly P-heads respond to requests) or the fact that developers do not like to talk to users -- many developers, even at work, like to work on their own).

But my hunch for the lack of communication is
1. Clavia is a very small company
2. G2 is a small market niche product, although I feel they could expand their market with some specific improvements.
3. every G2 user is very different and each user has many ideas (see 2.)
4. as a result, they get swamped with ideas, probably volumes of ideas, and trying to reply / communicate each of them would take so much time that no new development would get done as a result, meaning no new updates.

The lack or communication is very frustrating, I know, I have let it get to me on more than one occastion. But there is nothing we can do, they are a private company, run by individuals. And their products speak for themselves/Clavia even the people do not.
/Dasz

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I hereby volunteer my time to update the specifications of the Clavia website. I volunteer to, free of charge, update the text of the G2 specs to reflect reality, save the results as a html file, verify standards complience of this file, as well as complience to popular non-standard html viewers and upload it back to Clavia's website, either by email or when it turns out processing email is too much work for a small company to upload it over FTP or SSH myself.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
I don't think Tim was refering to system-wide bandwith; only to the bandwith of the signal that goes through the delay line.

I made the assumption that Tim was referring to bit-depth, as bandwidth of the signal through the delay line is depending on the 96kHz sample rate and not at all on the use of 16 or 24 bits. But as he didn't write that, I had a hard time deciding if he made a mistake or it was a deliberate lie. But I found it hard to believe that Tim would deliberately mislead readers, whether or not for commercial purposes. So, a plea for a rephrase, just to be sure.

Kassen wrote:
If read like that he is right; this should simply be in the specs because it makes the G2 entirely unsuitable for some aplications that it might look well suited for in the specs. Clavia's advertising is misleading here in ways unsuitable for porfesional instruments.

It has been officially admitted that the only two places where this reference occurred had been misprints. The other place where the sixteen bit delay memory had been mentioned was correct. I do not know if the misprints have been fixed, but I assume they have.

I assume that in a next post you will sum up those applications you have in mind, as you surely want to substantiate your claims. Accompanied by a detailed assessment why 16 bits will fail in cases where 24 bits will succeed. I'm very much looking forward to this.

Kassen wrote:
Of cource I agree that patching is a art but I'd like to look at it a little differently. Here you imply that working around the limitations of the G2 is a part of the art and indeed I agree, but another part of the art is choosing the right material for the work you want to do.

I assume that by limitation you mean the limitation in a sense that humans can perhaps be considered cripple compared to lifeforms that evolved from having two arms into lifeforms having six arms. As what you now so eloquently postulate as limitation is relative to what is a wish in your mind and not relative to what actually is in form. I strongly suspect that wishful thinking is severely cluttering up matters here.

But for your information, I did explicitly not mean working around limitations, and I distantiate myself from your apparent misinterpretation of my words. I meant it like I wrote it; that patching in itself is an art, period. Nowhere in my words do I imply something other. The idea of limitations is totally yours. So, don't try too bend that towards me, its not chique to do so.

Kassen wrote:
Much like a graphical artis will pick a technique and material fromt he range of materials available to him (for example, oilpaints, waterpaints, chacoal, and photshop) and might be looking into investing (both finantially and in time to grow proficient) in new materials and techniques a sound artist will also choose the right tool for the right job.

The right tool for the right job is a very fuzzy concept. If the idea that what works simply works is meant then tools are most probably picked because they are available and appear to work, and discussions on defining what tools are supposed to be used for becomes irrelevant.
The idea that clearly defined specific tools only belong to clearly defined specific jobs and any deviation on the interpretation of the dogmatic rules put up as commandments to people on what must be used for a specifc job, smells a bit like 'absolute predestination', meaning that a tool is not defined by what it in practice can and cannot do, but by what it is supposed to do, whether it is able to or not. Personally I have an Erastian view on these matters, and so are probably prone to one day be burned alive by zealots that adhere to the more Gomarist view of this last dogmatic interpretation, i.e. that these rules were already provided for during the process of creation of the Universe by that illustrous being.

To give an example, from time to time, when there is no more washing powder in the house I tend to use all-purpose household cleaner to wash my clothes. This definitely cleans the clothes quite thoroughly, though I noticed people tend to raise their nose, probably because the faint lemom-smell, when passing each other in the streets. All advertisements on cleaning products urge me to use only washing powder and not all-purpose household cleaner to wash clothes, but household cleaner simply works. And why should I care about people who do not understand the origins of that faint lemon smell?

Kassen wrote:
At that point you need the right information, particularly because artists are typically short on both money and time. If a storekeeper would convince you oilpaints are well suited for working quickly and you buy them based on that you have a problem. At that point you may have invested so much that -say- Photoshop is out of your finantial range which might result in all sorts of further problems, both finantiall and artistically.

In my Erastian views problems do not exist, only solutions and idée-fixes.

This example of an artist (I assume you mean a painter) having no clue himself about how much time oil paint needs to dry is peculiar at least...

Kassen wrote:
Clavia makes wonderfull instruments and I considder them amongst the most interesting manifacturers of hardware but their comunication to customers is seriously lacking.

Again, this attitude towards their cmmunication is prone to wishful thinking.

Kassen wrote:
Artists, to continue your analogy, are acustomed to wrking with systems that are less then perfect for the job, partially because artists, perhaps mor ethen any other field of work, tend to work in highly unusual ways. From this persepctive I think it'd be much more apropriate for Clavia to be more upfront about the limitations of their systems. I think it's acceptable for materials to have limitations, it's even asumed, but those limitations should be clear.

Aha, the don't dry your doggy in the magnetron idea. Note that the word limitation is too fuzzy and subjective to be used in any discussion, and that if an orator uses it unwisely (like I think is the case here) it is often a sign of the orator wanting to mislead the public. The word limitation can only be used in a context where a clear purpose is stated and an assessment is made on how and why there is a failure to achieve that particular purpose. Using the word limitation in a general sense when lacking a clear reference is pretty woolly.[/quote]

Kassen wrote:
You should not claim you make instruments that last a lifetime and promise bug-fix updates, then discontinue the instrument. You should not claim the whole system is 24 bits if it isn't. If you do things like that your overall credibility will suffer. I for one would not take claims for further updates to the G2 since Clavia is known to lie about further updates. I might *hope* for one or have some amount of confidence there will be one, but I wouldn't take those claims at face value anymore since Clavia lied to me about this in the past.

Aha, tell us how you can look into the future, Kassen. That is an ability I would also like to have. As only when you know what the future will be can you postulate such statements. The accusation of someone lying is a severe one, and only if you have seen in the future that there really will never be any more update for neither the NM1 or the G2 could you accuse Clavia from lying. But there are some angles to this, even if you have seen in your crystal ball, or whatever you use, that there will never be any more updates, the question remains why. Do you also see the why? E.g. will they be bought by some software company that will stop producing updates because they want to remove competition for one of their own products? Or will the Clavia premises burn down and all documentation get lost? Please tell what you see.

But seriously, you are very suggestive, more or less implying that there is a case of malice at hand. Which is completely different from the fact that Clavia has stated on several occasions that developing updates is depending on how much manpower is actuallly available to produce them. And that they deserve the right to announce they are working on one without giving a fixed release date.

Point is that production of NM1 hardware has ceased in favour of the G2 models. Still, every item will last a lifetime, if the lifetime of the particular item is meant. Hopefully that is as long as your personal lifetime. Here we of course enter the realm of jurisprudence when the exact meaning of the word lifetime must be pinned down.

When it comes to bugfixes or software updates, the phrasing of regular updates does not contain any absolute dates. An update is either announced, cancelled or not to be expected. Neither three possibilities rule out the others. In my personal experience Clavia does quite a good job with their update policies, compared to other hardware products I have experience with.

The psychological process in the mind of a user, where a personal user wish that is not implemented (but he/she thinks could be implemented) turns into a mental fixation that is then easily interpreted as a product limitation, is in no relation to the commonly accepted business practice that a product is always bought 'as is'. Neither is the idea that if one lays down money for a musical instrument one is instantly an artist, though the buyer may have the idea it does work like that. Money changing hands does not shift basic responsibilities. Like buying a car does not give the right to drive it, only a drivers licence gives that right.

Kassen wrote:
Clavia prommises "True 24 bit processing system with 96 kHz sampling rate." (source; www.clavia.se), this means they have a obligation to deliver this, both morraly and according to the law.

This in fact they do, I'm convinced it will hold in court, well, a Dutch court.

Kassen wrote:
It seems that they anticipate complaints (and possibly court cases) on this since they include the " Specifications subject to change without notice" disclaimer (source; www.clavia.se). I firmly believe in being open and honest, particularly in artistic matters and Clavia is severely hurting their own position here while a different additude that need not actually cost more would shine on them. They could simply say that the delay lines are 16 bit; that's much better then not having delays at all.

They have affirmed that the delay lines are 16 bit and that confusion about this issue is caused by a misprint, or better a specification that indeed did change without notice during the development phase.

Kassen wrote:
They could also simply explain that while the G2 is indeed capable of physical modeling this more of a side effect of the module set and that it's not especially well suited for this.

This you don't know. All you can say is that yóu don't know how to do it in e.g. the same way as you do it in Tassman, the company I know you have close contact to.

Kassen wrote:
This is nothing to be embarased about; it can also do some convolution but it's not exceptionally strong at that either. It need not be perfect for everything at all. As everywhere; panacea's are to be distrusted and artists typically do anyway. Would you purchace a fineliner marketed as being well suited for painintg skys in works of 1m² and up?

Really, why not?

Kassen wrote:
This is not acceptable behaviour to me; particularly where it involves such personal topics as emotional expression. Clavia's additude towards it's customers has severely soiled my emotional attachment to my own NM. As you yourself pointed out at many times; it's much more pleasant doing business with people who are honest and open.

Then let's hope Tassman does a better job for you.
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