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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Circuit Bending
using TV to display audio signals
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dnny



Joined: Mar 12, 2005
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Location: Helsinki, Finland
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SuperKoopa wrote:

just one question:
how do you connect the ten jacks on the patch panel?


thanks .

the red and black are the hot and cold from the speakon.
the blues are signals from the deflection board: (from left) vertical and vertical ground + horizontal and horizontal ground.
the yellow ones are yoke inputs: (from left) vertical and vertical ground + horizontal and horizontal ground.

the pictures and video are made whit "Censtron version b"-patch.
(look first post for diagrams)

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SuperKoopa



Joined: Aug 26, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks for informations.

sincerely i don't understand what speakon is:D

Can you tell me the audio input coordinates? (I mean Voltage amplitude required power...)
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dnny



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SuperKoopa wrote:

sincerely i don't understand what speakon is:D


speakon is Lockable Loudspeaker Connector widely used in Europe (maybe in US too?).

there are few different types 2, 4 and 8 pin versions. i have use the 2 pin version for my TV
here is a pic of speakons
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

SuperKoopa wrote:
Can you tell me the audio input coordinates? (I mean Voltage amplitude required power...)


i have used my home amp for this - if you turn the volume up you get bigger waves .. the actual values change when different TV-units are used. just try whit the amp you have. start from 0 and slowly turn the volume up as far as you want Smile or you can build some small amp for this - and try if it's good if not build a bigger one and use the smaller on some other application Wink

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dnny wrote:
i have used my home amp for this


Just a word of caution, not all amps are suitable to drive inductive loads.

I once blew up a home amp driving an inductive load (coil) - but it had a higher inductance than a TV deflection coil has (I used it with an iron core coil to bring metal strings into vibration).

So maybe use an old amp instead of the "good one".

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SuperKoopa



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks!

i have a bunch of old computer speakers (power is 3-10W)
do you think i can drive the coils with this?

somewhere in this topic i've read that old TVs are betther than modern.
On ebay i have found this

(never post a ebay link it's so unaesthetic)

isn't pretty?

do you think i can take the risk of bending this?

[Blue Hell: made the link shorter, you can use edit to see how]
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SuperKoopa wrote:
i have a bunch of old computer speakers (power is 3-10W)
do you think i can drive the coils with this?


I'd just try and see, the amp I blew ran very hot, so just be alert on that Very Happy

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dnny



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

you need to try - or you can wait that someone comes to your door and makes it for you. Smile
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dnny



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:

So maybe use an old amp instead of the "good one".


my home amp is not one of the good ones Smile

SuperKoopa wrote:
somewhere in this topic i've read that old TVs are betther than modern.


modern TV's and computer displays have error detection, and when they detect some kind of error they automatically shutdown. and that's no fun at all Sad

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SuperKoopa



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey dnny!

have you ever tried all the other possible connections?

have you found other interesting visual effects?
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dnny



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SuperKoopa wrote:

have you ever tried all the other possible connections?
have you found other interesting visual effects?


are trying to say I'm keeping something as secret ? Smile

i have try the other two possible connections, but unfortunately they don't look so stunning as the ones i have documented.

remember:
never connect your amp to the deflection circuit output's
never short horizontal whit vertical from deflection circuit

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:08 pm    Post subject: This thread must be made sticky! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks to Dnny who recently provided a link for this excellent thread and I was able to enjoy it once again

I've made it sticky because I feel it would be a great shame if in a couple of years down the line, it were to be lost in the great topical thread dungeon! Laughing

(If you see what I mean?!)

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ACHTUNG!
ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN.
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dnny



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:28 am    Post subject: Re: This thread must be made sticky! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Tom thanks for the stickyness.

i have got many questions to my e-mail about this so i think people are building these units. So ...
if you have build one please post comments and pics here.
+ if you have any questions please post them here.
this way others can learn from our mistakes and success.

daniel

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SuperKoopa



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi! dnny

My tv is just arrived today and i have some problems!

This is the story from when i opened the tv box to now.

1)i have disconnected the coils from the board
everything okay, there was a dot in the center of the screen.

2)i have connected Horiz. board output to Horiz. yoke.
everything okay . There was a very bright horizzontal line in the center.

3)i have connected Vert board output to Vert yoke.
Crying or Very sad i seen a very low brightness vertical line.

4) i have connected my stereo output to hor. yoke and it works but the brightness i so low!

5)i have thougth that this was caused by the protection system , so i tried every coils and transformers my home and i i've found different results.

5.1) a bit more brightness obtained from a secondary (15V 30VA) of a power transformer
i don't want use this, it's huge and too much heavy!

5.2)very good brightness obtained with a 8 ohm (3 W) computer speaker Shocked
this could be the optimal solution but it warms soooooo much!


what kind of dummy yoke you have used? where you have found it?

pleeeeeeease! help!
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dnny



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Super - nice to hear that your TV arrived and you have opend it successfully but...as i said earlier:
dnny wrote:

Exclamation and if you decide to do this project don't add the extra coil/yoke for the extra bright beam. it will fry you TV Exclamation


i will ad to this that it may fry something else also maybe cause a fire ...or something unpleasant - so please dot try random coils.

the perfect dummy would be the exact value the original Horizontal coil is.

i know this sounds silly but have you tried to adjust the brightness from the brightness-knob?

SuperKoopa wrote:
what kind of dummy yoke you have used? where you have found it?

i used the wrong kind and it fry my first TV. Sad

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Last edited by dnny on Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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SuperKoopa



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
i know this sounds silly but have you tried to adjust the brightness from the brightness-knob?


yes i have tried and this don't work

Embarassed sorry i have disobeyed to your warnings and i've found a perfect coil.
i have removed some turns from an old transformer and everything seems to work.
i have kept the power on for at least one hour and nothing has exploded.
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dnny



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SuperKoopa wrote:

i've found a perfect coil.
and everything seems to work.


bravo! that's nice to hear. i don't mind that you have disobeyed to my warnings. I'm just happy that everything seems to work and that you are safe.

did you do the patchable of the switchable version?
do you have any pics or video of your unit?

all the best
daniel

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SuperKoopa



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I haven't built it yet but this afternoon i must go to Cagliari (55 Km from my city) Exclamation at my favorite (and the only a bit eqipped with diy stuff in sardinia) eletronic shop to buy some RCA jacks and other stuff for my SL.

i will add an old stereo computer speaker amplifier and ten RCA jacks to make this unit completely patchable!

in this way you can amplify also the vertical board signal and put this to Horizzontal coil plugs to obtain a modulated horizzontal line (not vertical like in the classic version)


osc.JPG
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osc.JPG


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dnny



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sounds interesting - please post updates when you have completed this project.
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Chrishipgrave



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've tried to do this with my colour tv. Tried every combination of wires from jack to yoke and just get a dot?

Also, i re-connected the board cables back to the corresponding yoke cables and there is just a horizontal line (should get normal tv).

I've read that newer tv's don't work for some reason, i guess mine was too new? Anybody know about this?

Also now, even though i just get a horizontal line, i should still be able to get it to work shouldn't i?

Chris
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dnny



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

there is a neat how to on geek technique. org
on how to make Mac se/30 audio visualizers

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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dnny



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi Chris welcome

i have never tryed whit a color set, but if you get the horizontal line it should be enough. keep the horizontal line and then ad amplified audio signal to the vertical coil and that should get you the effect.

on some newer TV's the problem is that there is some kind of error detection and if they detect any error they will automatically shutdown.

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Kerr_Avon



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:45 pm    Post subject: Oscilloscopes
Subject description: run away
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Buy an oscilloscope. They are cheap.


I'll give you one possible proviso on that: On a colour set it could give you multicoloured fun that an oscilloscope would not, especially on an old delta gun set with three audio coils arranged around the tube neck, driven with maybe L, R, and L+R. But bear in mind the much higher power of the EHT on colour sets especially the old delta gun monsters. And don't forget to make sure you keep all your circuits completely isolated from any metal in the telly including the chassis bits which look like ground - as they are frequently at full current 1/2 mains voltage relative to mains earth or neutral.

If you didn't fully understand that - don't open the set.
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Chrishipgrave



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi all,

I've finished circuit bending a black and white tv, but the signal is quite small so i've got a small amplifier which needs 10-30v DC and was wondering whether i could power this from the TV?

does anybody know how i could do this, or is it too dangerous?

Thank you
Chris
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Kerr_Avon



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:03 am    Post subject: Don't Use TV PSU
Subject description: Using TV PSU
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No don't. And see above where it says "If you don't know what this means, don't open the back." The set might not be isolated. This means that the 0V rail inside the TV is likely to be at half mains voltage. Also I repeat, it's pointless for monochrome, as perfectly good old oscilloscopes are about 20USD.
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Chrishipgrave



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, i used a seperate DC adaptor to power the pre amp and it worked fine for a while.

After about 3 minutes of playing music through the preamp and into the TV i felt the pot on the preamp and i was really hot. So i took it apart and the IC chip has got a big crack all the way along it!

Does anybody know why this would of happened? I'm guessing it's something to do with the TV rather than the preamp because it was a kit bought from maplin.

Thank you
Chris
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