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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
The sound quality is the most important to me after all....
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adim



Joined: Mar 25, 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:57 am    Post subject: The sound quality is the most important to me after all.... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey all
happy new year
i write this topic cuz i start to feel really pissed off about my g2....
i love all thats go inside all the possibilities and things but after all i found my self using more vsts in my projects cuz the sound quality of the g2 never comes better than all this plugins...
its really strange

i want to hear please if u think im wrong and if u know something thats can make my g2 play more professional sound quality sounds
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi adim,

welcome on the forum.

Some of the messages written here by tim and Kassen would be interesting to you I guess, f.i. see a thread like : http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-4602.html

You would have to search a bit I around guess as most people seem to have a -love- relationship with their G2 :-)

And a happy new year to you as well.

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adim



Joined: Mar 25, 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:50 am    Post subject: thats not what im asking..... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks for the quick answer but no...
its not what i ment
i think the abilities of the g2 are amazing! but what do we need to do to make it sound really really good... is it good compressor and some external fxs??? i tried alot and never founded yet...
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I can assure you that the G2 truly IS capable making "pro sounds". This all depends on the patching of course.

Which virtual synths are you comparing it with? Have you ever used an old analog synth? What kind of sounds do you want?

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adim



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

take the z3ta as an example....
some sounds there are really killers and the g2 i cant even put one of his sounds or even if i make sounds its never sounds close to the plugin quality with the effects and all...
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mosc
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Download some of the Noodles from the forum. That will give you an idea of the sound quality you can get from the G2. To get the most out of the G2 it takes knowledge and practice - just like any instrument.
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adim



Joined: Mar 25, 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well.... sorry to say it...
but im here in the forum more than a year testing the noodles and all but till now none of them was impressing me in the sound quality with good frequencies
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Afro88



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yep, do a search for noodles by Mother Misty - they will show you how amazing the G2 can sound.

It seems to me that z3ta relies on the effects section to give it that "pro" sound. Carefully programmed delay, chorus and reverb can do wonders to any sound on it's own. There is also an EQ and compression section which would explain why everything sounds "great" and polished out of the box. The G2 is perfectly capable of sounding pro in this way, except it can't really do the amp modelling in the EQ section (or should I say no one has been bothered programming amp modelling algorhythms into the G2 yet Wink), but this isn't what is giving z3ta a "pro" sound.

Another reason why you may think z3ta sounds better is because it's preset selection is more tailored to your style of music. The G2's preset selection is, to put it bluntly, really uninspired. Most of the sounds are typical soft atmospheric sounds which don't do the G2 justice. Have you tried comparing similar patches you've programmed on z3ta and the G2? Start with a blank patch, then add in basic saws -> filter -> chorus -> delay and see which one you prefer.

Grab some patches from this forum, and add in some carefully programmed eq, delay, reverb etc. and you'll be on your way!

Also, if you prefer z3ta's sound for leads or whatever, then use if for leads. The G2 isn't supposed to replace your hard earned synths... I'm sure there are some patches in the G2 which you like, which could sound good along with the z3ta sounds you like. Usually it's not a case of which instrument sounds better overall, but which sounds better for different things.
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K



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

adim wrote:
well.... sorry to say it...
but im here in the forum more than a year testing the noodles and all but till now none of them was impressing me in the sound quality with good frequencies

why don't you do us a favor and sell the damned thing? Twisted Evil
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The main point with a modular synth is that YOU can make it do what you want. If you want a specific kind of sound, you simply patch it up. The G2 is quite capable if a wide range of exciting sounds.

On the other hand, perhaps you are better served with a bunch of softsynths instead. Some of these come with shitloads of presets.

BTW: are you familiar with the synths of 70s and the early 80s? Stuff like the Roland Jupiter 6, the ARP Odyssey and others?

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:

BTW: are you familiar with the synths of 70s and the early 80s? Stuff like the Roland Jupiter 6, the ARP Odyssey and others?


I'll bite. I personally am in fact not familiar with those, I've not been all that interested in prewired substractive synths in the past years though lately I've been considering getting a modern analogue one. I am however intimately familiar with "classical" modular synths like the EMS Synthi, the Serge modular and the Arp 2500. How does this relate to the G2?

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well.. simple.. I guessing that our new friend has little experience with old gear like that. If he thinks the G2 is dull sounding, then he will be very disappointed by these instruments.

I am sure the z3ta is exactly what he needs, and he will hate any Buchla, Moog or old ARP synth out there.


Sure.. the G2 doesn´t sound like an Odyssey, but I am trying to make a point about sound design and synth architecture.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
I've not been all that interested in prewired substractive synths in the past years


I mentioned these because the prewired cheap boxes are more numerous.

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ian-s



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

adim wrote:
take the z3ta as an example....
some sounds there are really killers


Can you post a sample of one of these killer sounds, just a single note dry and then with effects? Might be an interesting exercise.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:
Might be an interesting exercise.


Ah a challenge thingy, cool !

Ehm we have bug .. the spelling checker doesn't like "thingy" ...

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adim



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey Smile
well im kind of agree with u about this that effects gives good color to sound i use alot chorus reverbs and more i checked with the z3ta and sure its making the color with effects but u have there some things that makes it sounds better... i mean - the chorus there is much more adjustable than the g2 and the waves there are more wavetables which we dont have in the g2 and the sequencers there are really nice (btw: clave... its time to make some presets ability to save inside the sequncers)

thats all..
well i am keep try hard to make it sound more good
thanks Smile
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pitty, a sample or two would have helped everyone to learn something, in hte challenge thingy I mean :-(
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:

Ehm we have bug .. the spelling checker doesn't like "thingy" ...


Yeah, I have a problem with that too. Rob went "perhaps you should spell check" so I tried it. First it complained about "thingy", then it was opposed to "E" as in "E-M", oh and just to make sure it also took issue with the "M" in "E-M" as well.

We need "thingy", "thingy" is like a warmer, more practical and more friendly "foo".

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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:

Some of the messages written here by tim and Kassen would be interesting to you I guess, f.i. see a thread like : http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-4602.html
.


I just reread that thread of mine. Laughing

Just for the record here-I bought two G2Xs two months after posting that. Laughing Reason was that I was asked to play a tour in 2004 which demanded musical solutions which were very hard to pull off wihout something like a G2.

However -to be honest, I still have my doubts about the G2. Well, no. The G2 is as good as it gets! I love it for what it is. To be more precise: I have my doubts about digital modular synthesis, as a whole.

Current sampling rates are more than sufficient for audio recording, at least in my opinion. But audio processing is a totally different ballgame.

I've had hour-long conversations about this with a good friend of mine who is a audio software programmer. All good audio software utilises copious upsampling, especially on aliasing-critical processes. On a fixed sample rate digital modular platform, this isn't possible (yet). Furthermore, distinguishing between "audio" and "modulation" rates (modular heresy Evil or Very Mad in my book, btw.!) and clocking the latter even lower doesn't make things better. (For the record: It's not only the G2 that does this. NI Reaktor does this too, for example.)

And even with all processes clocking at audio rate, the problem isn't solved. Almost every process in the modular domain adds some aliasing, and it all adds up in the end.

Of course, there is the mathematical procedure of bandlimiting, using the so-called sinc filter. But just having that feature eg. on the oscillators isn't enough. Because, if I just patch a simple ringmodulator with those oscillators, the aliasing is right back here again, generated by the (unaliased) sidebands.

So actually, one would have to bandlimit every process, every module.

I asked my friend if this were possible -if it were possible (at least theoretically) to sinc-filter every module in a digital modular environment. The answer: No. Two reasons for this: 1)the monstrous computational load and 2)sinc filtering (like all filtering) introduces latency into the system. Now, imagine that for every module... Rolling Eyes

So the only solution is upsampling, upsampling, upsampling.

It is for these reasons that I still feel attracted to pure analog synthesis, despite the impurities that come along with it. To my ears, those analog impurities are far more musical (or: less unmusical) than digital ones. I have some analog synths lying around and am still seriously considering taking the plunge into analog modular territory, especially after Per Wikströms article.

Not bashing the G2, though. It's a great achievement and I love it dearly for what it is!

And the relevance to this topic was... ...ah, yes, the sound quality. Laughing

All I can say concerning these synth A (G2) versus synth B(z3ta or what it's called) discussions: No synth can really replace another synth! So, if synth B floats your boat, well great, then use synth B. And if you are not satisfied with the sound of synh A, well then too bad, it is not for you. Don't use it. Sell it or return it (like Kassen returned the G2).

[/ramble]

tim

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

Recently as a learning exercise I created the same patch on the G2, V-Synth, Reaktor 5, and Reason subtractor. No fx were used.

I was very suprised how difficult it was to try to get the same sound out of each of them using ears, an oscilloscope and a spectrum analyser, even sine waves were different.

For my ears the G2 sounded nicer than the others and enabled me to create the sound I wanted form the patch with the most ease.

I have read on this forum messages from some people about the G2 sound not being up to scratch and have always been a bit surprised as lots of the patches I have downloaded from here have been fantastic, maybe its just a matter of taste.

It would be great if adim posted a sample of one of these killer sounds, my bet would be that quite a few of the guys here could knock something up to give it a run for its money.

All the best for the new year

Andy
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sebber



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tim, your signature made my day. Great.

adim, if you don't like the patches sent to the forum then sell the thing. That's what the G2 sounds like. It's like with food: if you don't like it, you don't eat it, be it good quality (and the G2 is good quality) or not. But I'd love to see what the wizards would do with the z3ta-sounds you miss. Do me a favour and send them in.

Thanks,
sebber
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adim



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:38 am    Post subject: patches from the z3ta Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

here is two patches from the z3ta....
didnt touched nothing
in 24 bit
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adim



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sorry i couldnt upload here so here is yousendit link with the sound

thanks Smile
http://s53.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=12KXBSK591PCA33HMF3CE2TQ1K
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Axiom



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i've tried to make a similar patch. this is the firts draft so I don't used yet any filter trick.. is a simple 6 oscillator patch with dual bus, z3ta+ like.

Luca


g2zetzpad.mp3
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dasz posted this one - here just now.
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