| Should the String Oscillator tuning be repaired? |
| Yes |
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77% |
[ 7 ] |
| Don't care |
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22% |
[ 2 ] |
| No |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 9 |
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| Author |
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jamos
Joined: Jun 01, 2004
Posts: 514
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Audio files: 4
G2 patch files: 41
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 Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:06 am Post subject:
Fix the String Oscillator tuning problem! |
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When the string oscillator iis used, it does not track the keyboard properly. High notes are flat.
Others more knowledgable than I claim that this is due to a constant delay in the oscillator's waveguide, and that it should be possible to compensate for this in the code. If so, please do it! |
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Rob
Joined: Mar 29, 2004
Posts: 580
Location: The Hague/Netherlands/EC
G2 patch files: 109
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 4:02 pm Post subject:
Re: Fix the String Oscillator tuning problem! |
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| jamos wrote: | When the string oscillator iis used, it does not track the keyboard properly. High notes are flat.
Others more knowledgable than I claim that this is due to a constant delay in the oscillator's waveguide, and that it should be possible to compensate for this in the code. If so, please do it! |
Well, it is actually the feedback damping filter that exhibits a frequency dependent phase shift that adds to the delaytime of the waveguide. It is costly to compensate, it would make the OscString use much more DSP. |
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jamos
Joined: Jun 01, 2004
Posts: 514
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Audio files: 4
G2 patch files: 41
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:44 pm Post subject:
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| Quote: | | It is costly to compensate, it would make the OscString use much more DSP. |
Hmm. Well, anything that's going to make the string oscillator fatter is probably a bad idea.
Thanks for the insight - |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 18256
Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 227
G2 patch files: 60
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:58 am Post subject:
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On a modular synth, the most basic thing is that it play in tune. If you can't make a module play in tune, then don't offer it. It will cause pain and suffering each time it is discovered by another user. One can't expect each new G2 patcher to read the entier forum and email list archives before jumping in an patching.
I say it should play in tune, or have the name changed to indicate that it can't . I've never fooled around with it personally. |
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Rob
Joined: Mar 29, 2004
Posts: 580
Location: The Hague/Netherlands/EC
G2 patch files: 109
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:15 am Post subject:
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| mosc wrote: | On a modular synth, the most basic thing is that it play in tune. If you can't make a module play in tune, then don't offer it.
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Hèhè, guess we wouldn't have had Moog systems then. 
There's another way to look at it, acoustic string instruments often have to be tuned manually for each note, e.g. on a violin. Perhaps this model keeps true to the idea of physical modelling by having it tuned for each note by e.g. the Pitch Stick.
But seriously, the OscString is the simple approach for a waveguide and in this respect has all the quirks that come along with it. If physical modelling was simple there would be much more PhM based synths around.
I wouldn't really want to use this module for emulating real world acoustic instruments myself, but it's a fine module for about anything else. I'm glad it's there, flat/sharp or not. |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 18256
Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 227
G2 patch files: 60
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:45 am Post subject:
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| Rob wrote: | | mosc wrote: | On a modular synth, the most basic thing is that it play in tune. If you can't make a module play in tune, then don't offer it.
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Hèhè, guess we wouldn't have had Moog systems then. |
The amazing thing about the Moog Modulars, at least the ones with the 921 oscillators, is that they were excellent examples of electrical engineering. Mine stays in tune amazingly well, even after more than 30 years. I've stopped using the original Moog keyboard which was essentially a resistor string and an sample and hold module built using a reed switch. I use a MIDI/CV converter which is much better from the stability point of view.
The original Moog Modulars had a very peculiar property, they were photo sensitive. The transistors used in the circuits were not in opaque packages. On of the early Moog Modular owners, Different Fur Trading Company in San Francisco, got a big system and put it into a beautiful clear plexiglass cabinet, so you could see all the innards. When the fired it up it started drifting all over the place. Word of this got out and there was a period where everyone who had access at a Moog Modular was doing performances with the cabinet backs removed - playing patches with flashlights. I ordered mine in 1971 and I got one with the improved circuits; the photosensitivity problem was solved. In some ways, I was disappointed.
You're right, of course, about the value of the string osc module on the G2. I really don't think it should be removed from the offering, just that it should have a well advertised disclaimer so people don't get frustrated with it. Everything else in the G2 is so accurate. |
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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004
Posts: 1148
Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 236
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 4:42 pm Post subject:
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AFAIK, absolute pitch accuracy is not possible on digital waveguides anyway.
IIRC, even the Yamaha VL1 had a "tuning procedure" that created a hi-res tuning compensation lookup table by sweeping a pitched phM patch over the entire pitch range and measuring the deviations. If you messed with the patch too much, you had to retune.
Maybe we should add a phM tuning lookup table (not unlike the CtrlSeq module, but with 256 values) to the wishlist...WITH an automatic tuning procedure in the editor.  |
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3phase
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1189
Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
G2 patch files: 141
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:41 am Post subject:
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I would prefer when it would go sharp on the high notes instead of flat...
I found this mor musical..
Is this maybe possible without making the dsp load going up?
Sven |
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Rob
Joined: Mar 29, 2004
Posts: 580
Location: The Hague/Netherlands/EC
G2 patch files: 109
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:00 am Post subject:
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| 3phase wrote: | I would prefer when it would go sharp on the high notes instead of flat...
I found this mor musical..
Is this maybe possible without making the dsp load going up?
Sven |
Maybe use the Keyboard Morph on the fine tune? |
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Afro88
Joined: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 701
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Audio files: 12
G2 patch files: 79
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:52 am Post subject:
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| Rob wrote: | | 3phase wrote: | I would prefer when it would go sharp on the high notes instead of flat...
I found this mor musical..
Is this maybe possible without making the dsp load going up?
Sven |
Maybe use the Keyboard Morph on the fine tune? |
Exactly. Or if you're willing to sacrafice a little bit of dsp, a keyboard scaler module. |
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