electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Musical Interfaces
Human body as controller/modifier?
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [9 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
aerogramma



Joined: Feb 27, 2008
Posts: 156
Location: Roma, Italy - London, UK
Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:15 am    Post subject: Human body as controller/modifier?
Subject description: not quite a cracklebox
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello I've been looking into integrating the human body as a controller modifier for out live sets... the audience's human bodies that is Smile

i've started looking into the cracklebox concept and i'm not sure if i read the schematics correctly but it seems that the touchpads are just a way to add skins as a resistor thus changing the sound.

but anyway i'm not too fond of the cracklebox sound i rather go for something more like a sinewave, a deeper sound.

so i'm looking into suggestions on how to interface, say a VCO, with a human body... one thought was that you could use bodies as resitor/frequency dividers of some sort, put them in series to gradually change the frequency.

but i'm not sure how to do that, shall i go down the circuit bending rout and just bring out touchpoints from the vco circuit or...any advice?

thanks!

aero
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 6221
Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi aero, there are many ways to interface electronics to the human body. Biofeedback devices work by sensing skin resistance. You can use a multimeter set on resistance measurement and touch the probes to your fingers to see an example of this. A classic biofeedback device measures this skin resistance and varies an oscillator's freqency, going lower in freqency for higher resistances. That way as a person relaxes, their skin dries from lack of sweat, and the tone gets more relaxing. I'm sure you can google up some biofeedback schematics for doing this.

You can also detect the body's pulse by shining a red led into the tip of your finger and detecting the ac component of the light with a sensor, though I don't know what kind of sensor. Perhaps a phototransistor or cadmium sulfide cell.

The body also makes noises which you can detect with a microphone.

You can even detect a person's temperature from a distance by focusing light with a lens. Companies make gun-shaped temperature meters for pointing at industrial equipment and sensing temperature this way. With mirror scanners and one of those devices, I suppose you could scan the audience in a raster pattern to map their temperatures. That would be a "cool" thing to do.

In addition to direct sensing of the body, there are many sensing devices available that detect pressure, bending, motion, and the like. Also you can just give each audience member a WiiMote and detect them with Bluetooth and oscullator or some other software.

In addition, I have created a USB accelerometer device that looks like a joystick to the computer. I use the music programming language ChucK to create guitar effects and a simple drum machine by sensing the motion of the sensor.

So there are lots of options for you to consider. I'd suggest starting simple and doing something really easy like sensing skin resistance and driving a vco with it, then moving on to other approaches. Good luck and have fun!

_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
aerogramma



Joined: Feb 27, 2008
Posts: 156
Location: Roma, Italy - London, UK
Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks a lot for the suggstions.. i'm quite familiar with sensors and software implementations of controlling devices

i'm thinking here something much more primitive, going straight to an oscillator, no sensor or software involved Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 6221
Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

you could use a relaxation oscillator with about one MOhm in the voltage divider top side and put the skin contact as the lower resistor, send the triangle wave output into an LM386 speaker driver and there ya go. Might work or something like it.
_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
aerogramma



Joined: Feb 27, 2008
Posts: 156
Location: Roma, Italy - London, UK
Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Inventor wrote:
you could use a relaxation oscillator with about one MOhm in the voltage divider top side and put the skin contact as the lower resistor, send the triangle wave output into an LM386 speaker driver and there ya go. Might work or something like it.


mmm... i'm far too ignorant to understand what a relaxation osc is Wink

i tried to connect electrodes to a pot (controlling and osc) and putting bodies and 'things' in series kind of worked...

but i still need a lot of advice an make it much better
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 6221
Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, I think you're on the right track. Regardless of knowing what a relaxation oscillator is, you can look at any oscillator schematic and figure out which resistor or resistors control the frequency. Then it's a matter of putting those in the megOhm range by setting the cap value and using a pair of skin electrodes in place of the resistor...
_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
aerogramma



Joined: Feb 27, 2008
Posts: 156
Location: Roma, Italy - London, UK
Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Inventor wrote:
Well, I think you're on the right track. Regardless of knowing what a relaxation oscillator is, you can look at any oscillator schematic and figure out which resistor or resistors control the frequency. Then it's a matter of putting those in the megOhm range by setting the cap value and using a pair of skin electrodes in place of the resistor...


Thanks!! I do i achieve putting them in the MegOhm range?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 6221
Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, the frequency of any ressitor-capacitor based oscillator is typically set by an RC time constant. If you remember "units" from school, Ohms * Farads = seconds. Weird but true. So you want your Ohms times your Farads to come out to be around 1 ms. That would give you 1 kHz audio frequency. Of course it's much more complpex than that and circuit-dependent but that's the rough general idea.

So you look at the circuit and it has C1 value of capacitance and R1 value of resistance. Say R1 is 100 kOhms. You want R1 to be about 1 MOhm. So you decrease the capacitor by a factor of 10.

Note that although I said you should completely remove the resistor and replace it with a skin sensor, another option would be to use a 1 MOhm resistor and just put the skin sensor in parallel with it. That would not be as sensitive but might work better overall.

If you have any more questions just ask away. Cheers.

_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
aerogramma



Joined: Feb 27, 2008
Posts: 156
Location: Roma, Italy - London, UK
Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thank you very much sir,

will experiment upon your suggestions in the next few days

Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [9 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Musical Interfaces
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use