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steampump
Joined: Oct 22, 2004 Posts: 76 Location: switzerland
G2 patch files: 14
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Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:05 am Post subject:
Midi Controller for G2 Engine Missing Documentation ! |
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I'm really disappointed to see how small are the informations to controlle the expander with midi. I'm not speaking about the controller you can assign within a patch, but about the controller who are not listed and are used by the Engine.
I'll give you two samples .
CC#70 variation selector: not comment about the value to use (Jan give my a god advice)
CC#47 is the controller for the arpeggiatore (on off) 0 127
CC#50 is the rate for the arpeggiator ( value 0 32 64 96 ) 1/8 1/8T 1/16 1/16T
I just found this because i used the nord lead 3 template in the Remote 25 .
Without this chance, i would probably never know, there is an arpegiator inside of my G2 Engine....
How many undocumented midi controller are there, and what do they controlle ? And what are the controller value ?
Has somebody found out more ?
I have begun to collect the infos on my home page. See the verified controller.www.armuco.ch _________________ Artworks Music Computer Last edited by steampump on Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:49 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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steampump
Joined: Oct 22, 2004 Posts: 76 Location: switzerland
G2 patch files: 14
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Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:24 pm Post subject:
other controller |
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Found 2 other undocumented controller
CC#53 apeggiatore direction 0= up 32 =down 64= up and down 96= random or sequence ?
CC#54 arpeggiator 0 = 1 oct 32= 2 oct 64 = 3 oct 96 = 4octave
searching other .......
Actual liste www.armuco.ch _________________ Artworks Music Computer |
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steampump
Joined: Oct 22, 2004 Posts: 76 Location: switzerland
G2 patch files: 14
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Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:13 pm Post subject:
G2 Engine Midi controller |
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I have found a lot of internal midi controller
You can find them listed and documented on my home page.
Here is an easy access
http://www.armuco.ch/music/music_sound_technologie_fr.htm
For some CC# i have not found the use yet. I'm not sure if standard use is made with them. Or how they are used. I remind you the CC# used here cannot be assigned in the patch to control the modules. They are only for general use
Volume,PitchBend;octav shift,keyboard hold,voicemode,performance mode, Bank change, arpeggiatore commande, vibrato,sustain, glide parameter, variation selection,
The missing controller use:
CC#6 Data entry ?
CC#11 Expression Pedal ? ( has sombody a exemple)
CC#37
CC#38
CC#96
CC#97
CC#100
CC#101
Thanks for your help _________________ Artworks Music Computer |
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Afro88
Joined: Jun 20, 2004 Posts: 701 Location: Brisbane, Australia
Audio files: 12
G2 patch files: 79
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Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:35 pm Post subject:
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According to the newer G2 manual (http://www.clavia.com/G2/V1_20/G2UserManual_V1_2x.pdf), cc#96 and #97 are the G2X Global Modwheel 1 (morph and 2 (morph 5) respectively and #11 is the expression pedal. As for the other non-assignable controllers, I have no idea . They certainly improved the midi section of the manual, but you'd think they'd give a complete cc list. |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:42 pm Post subject:
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You are doing good work ! And it's good for my french language skills (hmm..) as well :-)
Jan. |
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steampump
Joined: Oct 22, 2004 Posts: 76 Location: switzerland
G2 patch files: 14
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Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:09 pm Post subject:
More about CC#11 |
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I'm just beginning to use the Engine. And just beginning to understand how morph groups are working.
I see also that midi conrollers can be used in different ways. For CC#11 the pedal expression my problem was that there was no samples in the patch who uses the Expression Pedal. So i have to create one and found there are 3 way to use the pedal.
1) assign a knob to the groupe controlled by the pedal
2) using the modul Device
3) using the module CtrlRcv1
The only way to use all internal assigned controller is using module CtrlRcv1
But CARREFULL , you really need to know what you are doing, because the assigned controler are continuing to do there job. It means that you can only do some effects with some controller .
Maybe Volume (CC#7) with a LFO modulation...
You can use the CC# 96 and 97 without any problem on the "G2 Engine " with CtrlRcv1 because they are not assigned to any internal command.
Do not use CC*37, 38,100, 101 and CC#120 before knowing what they are doing internally.
CC#9 can be used to play "Sounds of silence" _________________ Artworks Music Computer |
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egw
Stream Operator
Joined: Feb 01, 2003 Posts: 1569 Location: Asheville NC
Audio files: 18
G2 patch files: 8
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Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:47 pm Post subject:
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Are these fixed CC assignments only on the engine? |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:43 pm Post subject:
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AFAIK the CC's are not engine only.
Jan, |
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jamos
Joined: Jun 01, 2004 Posts: 514 Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Audio files: 4
G2 patch files: 41
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:24 pm Post subject:
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I can't get the arpeggiator controls to work - I'm usng the Ctrl Send module and constants tied to front-panel controls, on a G2 keyboard, v 1.24. Does anyone know why this shouldn't work? |
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steampump
Joined: Oct 22, 2004 Posts: 76 Location: switzerland
G2 patch files: 14
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Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:27 pm Post subject:
Arpeggiator Problem |
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I have only the Engine Rack . But i have had a problem with the arpeggiator .By mistake i have Deassigned all Midi, and all standard parameters were also deassigned in the patch setttings.
Reassign and it should work. You can also assing a button to the control panel in this menu. _________________ Artworks Music Computer |
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Kassen
Janitor
Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3
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Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:57 pm Post subject:
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Good job.
Respect. _________________ Kassen |
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ian-s
Joined: Apr 01, 2004 Posts: 2669 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Audio files: 42
G2 patch files: 626
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Wan
Joined: Mar 31, 2004 Posts: 259 Location: Netherlands, Ugchelen
Audio files: 4
G2 patch files: 46
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Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:06 am Post subject:
Re: Arpeggiator Problem |
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g2ian wrote: |
See patch, variation 5 for an example, both range and direction randomly changed.
Only works in slot A |
Now this is not just a patch....
It's a terrific patch
The other variations are good too folks, don't listen just to var 5 (which is very clever).
Thanks G2Ian _________________ Grtz Wan |
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zynthetix
Joined: Jun 12, 2003 Posts: 838 Location: nyc
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 13
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Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:34 pm Post subject:
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does anyone know what CC #32 is for? |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:40 pm Post subject:
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zynthetix wrote: | does anyone know what CC #32 is for? |
Bank selection, then when a bank is selected a patch or performance can be selected from this bank by using a Program Change message.
Bank selection can be used on a regular MIDI channel to select a patch bank or on the global channel to select a performance bank.
Likewise Program Change can be used on a global or non-global MIDI channel.
The first bank is selected by sending a zero data byte for this CC.
Jan. |
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zynthetix
Joined: Jun 12, 2003 Posts: 838 Location: nyc
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 13
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:03 pm Post subject:
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thanks for the info jan.
imho, i think a version of this list should be added into the G2 faq, editing the list when new CC# definitions are found. Special props to steampump for finding so many of these |
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richard s
Joined: Jan 28, 2005 Posts: 76 Location: uk
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:48 pm Post subject:
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#80 is used to control the start/stop for the master clock - but this is still available as an assignable controller. Does anyone know where i can reassign the start/stop to something else? Can't see it in the manual
anyone know what 18 is used for?
I don't like all this dedicated CCs! We should have a matrix where we are able to assign them at will. Especially for Engine users!
Richard |
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jamos
Joined: Jun 01, 2004 Posts: 514 Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Audio files: 4
G2 patch files: 41
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:51 pm Post subject:
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richard s wrote: | I don't like all this dedicated CCs! |
I do. When too many things are assignable it means that more can go wrong: you have two devices to configure (the synth and the controller) rather than just one (the controller). So more time is spent configuring, figuring out config mismatches, etc.
Choice is not always a good thing.
Just my $0.02, in case anyone at Clavia is tempted to take you seriously |
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richard s
Joined: Jan 28, 2005 Posts: 76 Location: uk
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Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:40 am Post subject:
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but jamos, surely the Nord modulars are all about getting confused by having too much choice!!
In my case i am using a yamaha wx5 as a controller, apart from breath, this outputs cc17,16, 80 and 81 so basically i am pretty much screwed because Clavia already tied up CCs which as a non-keyboard playing engine user i will never want or be able to use
My basic view is that it is my synth and I should be able to do whatever i want with it - I think we should both be happy. There should be a standard controller template for you and user templates for me.
Richard |
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steampump
Joined: Oct 22, 2004 Posts: 76 Location: switzerland
G2 patch files: 14
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Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:18 am Post subject:
Midi specifiacation |
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Just for younger people ,
Midi (Musical Instrument Digital Interface) have be devellopped in early 80's.
Midi spedification 1.0 was designed for manufacturer's to communicate data between different music interfaces, Synths, DSP, Recorder.Lightshow etc.. The problem was that in the beginning only a part of the protocol was used, and the rest was free. So the problem is now that many early free controller are used in different way today; standard stays compatible, but when you have older and new device some are not compatible.
So my personnal view is that the solution of Clavia to assign controller is the best you can have to communicate with new or older devices.
You can fin more information about Midi at http://www.midi.org/ and the extended protocols. _________________ Artworks Music Computer |
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richard s
Joined: Jan 28, 2005 Posts: 76 Location: uk
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Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:30 am Post subject:
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"my personnal view is that the solution of Clavia to assign controller is the best you can have to communicate with new or older devices."
ermm, except my device, or any other that routes different from that declared correct by Clavia. The truth is that Clavia's implementation makes it completely hit or miss whether a given controller will work or not... it not comprehensive at all, in fact its pretty random
Having less controllers but being able to customise the routing, like the Andromeda, would be a much more flexible solution IMO
Richard |
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steampump
Joined: Oct 22, 2004 Posts: 76 Location: switzerland
G2 patch files: 14
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Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:04 pm Post subject:
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Just for CC#18 is Keyboard hold parameter 0=normal 64 =hold
It is similar to sustain CC#64
For your other question , i'm not shure to understand are you using G2 as master, or is it just a slave in your config ?
If it is slave you can also change defined CC# in patch setting menu (see above ).
About CC#80 it is not a standard controller and has noting to do with the master clock
If you want to control your G2, your masterkeyboard need to be able to send MidiTimecode
this means there is a generator in your masterkeyboard. You are going to syncronize an external clock with the clock in your G2. It is no the same thing as just starting a sequencer with a trigger. _________________ Artworks Music Computer |
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jamos
Joined: Jun 01, 2004 Posts: 514 Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Audio files: 4
G2 patch files: 41
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Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:31 pm Post subject:
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steampump wrote: | If you want to control your G2, your masterkeyboard need to be able to send MidiTimecode |
NO NO NO!
Sorry for the emotion, but this is a pet peeve. MIDI Time Code and MIDI Clock are not the same. MIDI Time code (MTC) is "time of day" based, and is not used in the G2, nor does it (IMHO) have any application outside scoring films. MIDI clock is tempo based, and is the correct sync method to use for sequencer/drum machine sync. |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:56 pm Post subject:
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steampump wrote: |
About CC#80 it is not a standard controller and has noting to do with the master clock
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From the G2 v1.29/1.30 readme :
* MIDI CC# 80 on Global Channel sets internal clock state.
(which means starts/stops the clock - MIDI clock, not MTC !!)
Jan. |
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steampump
Joined: Oct 22, 2004 Posts: 76 Location: switzerland
G2 patch files: 14
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Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:10 pm Post subject:
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Sorry, i'm not going so deep in timing . I was just happy when it is working.
I'm just looking in my midi resource book, and see my confusion between MTC, SMPTE and Midi clock message. I believed SMPTE was the only one who was used for real time , that was the reason why i believed Midi Time Code and Midi Clock message where the same thing.
So i know something more MTC is a absolute timing reference and Midi clock is a relative timing reference.
And SMPTE the timing reference used in audio and video.,converted to MTC to be used in Midi enviroment...and Backward. _________________ Artworks Music Computer |
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