Why are Pedals Hooked up Linearly?

Inventor

When I first got into guitar a year ago, in my inexperience I figured guitar pedals would be like ChucK modules (UGens) in that one could hook them up into complex networks. Feedback, feedforward, multiple paths, summing pedals, all that stuff you know...

But no, I find that guitar pedals are typically connected in a linear fashion. This makes no sense to me. Does the world need a new way to hook up guitar pedals?

Les

Antimon · Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:55 pm Post subject:

ChucK UGens live in luxurious virtual world, where an item can be obtained by just declaring a variable. Real life modules (like a pedal) on the other hand, need to be built or bought. You should compare to the way a modular synthesizer works rather than ChucK (which I guess you already did, being the electronics wizard that you are). So there's nothing stopping people connecting pedals in whatever way, but you need to spend extra dosh on mixers or attenuators. Soon you'll end up with a big pile of stuff and no money. Plus pedals often contain complex effects - putting stuff in networks is easier if the effects are simple.

That said, there's nothing stopping anyone from putting pedals in wild configurations, I'm pretty sure it's been done.

/Stefan

Antimon · Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:56 pm Post subject:

I've actually planned to buy a MXR Carbon Copy pedal to use with my modular, might do that today. Smile

/Stefan

Inventor · Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:10 am Post subject:

Electronics wizard? What a compliment! Thanks Stefan! I bet it's been done, just not that commonly. Or it's usually done with modulars or something, yeah. Cool.

Les

cbm · Joined: Oct 25, 2005 Posts: 381 Location: San Francisco

There are products like the Switchblade which are essentially programmable matrix mixers for guitar. http://www.soundsculpture.com/products/switchblade_models.htm

GovernorSilver

Inventor · Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:34 am Post subject:

Neat stuff, so I see it's out there, cool.

Les

GovernorSilver · Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:19 am Post subject:

The funny thing is, very few guitarists realize that when they connect their pedals together, they are essentially building a modular synthesis system. Bill of course gets this better than most of us.

Oskar · Joined: Jul 29, 2004 Posts: 1751 Location: Norway

Good question, Les! I think one reason for there not being a precedent for "non-linear" hooking-up og pedals is that there aren't many gadgets out there that allow you to hook up yer pedals in parallel, or for preference, alternate between series and parallel; The ones you CAN buy tend to be prohibitively priced, so most of us - at leats those, who like me, can't wield a soldering iron without harming themselves - keep away from that path. Mind you, there are certain multi fx for guitar that can do serial and/or parallel to a degree. of course, these pedals won't allow you to mix and match gadgets form different makers. Ah well, it's still good fun to experiment with the "old-timey" serial pedal setup, just seeing what you can do within those limitations...

Inventor · Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:46 pm Post subject:

Oskar, then perhaps what is needed is a simple pedal that does splitting and summing with gain/attenuation control. It would be very inexpensive compared to most pedals. I can keep this in mind as another future project / product as a PCB kit item if you and others think that is a good idea...

Les

BobTheDog · Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:56 pm Post subject:

Hi Les,

Splitters are available already, from cheap like like the behringer DI20 to the expensive Radial DJ7.

Routers are also available for studio use but are very expensive

What would be nice maybe a box with say 8 ins and 8 outs that allows the user to choose how to route/split/merge the signals.

It just depends how cheap you could make something like this, I do know that the stuff used for this in TV/Radio production is amazingly expensive!

Cheers

Andy

Oskar · Joined: Jul 29, 2004 Posts: 1751 Location: Norway

I got a rackmounted patchbay a few years back, and that's nice but cumbersome, and once you've hooked stuff to it, you're unlikely to want to change the routing, especially in the middle of a gig!

Inventor · Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:02 pm Post subject:

oh, well for that all we'd need is a pushbutton switch matrix and some resistors plus jacks on a board. Could make it with or without an enclosure as it's all passive and stuff. Maybe use an extra-thick PCB and forgo the case. Would that be needed then? Would be cheap and machine-manufacturable and stuff.

Les

BobTheDog · Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:10 am Post subject:

Well usually for guitarists you need pretty strong boxes as we are clumsy and tend to trip over thinks by mistake, spill beer on them and drop them.

Inventor · Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:17 am Post subject:

Ok, how about a 4x4 matrix in a case then? That would only require 16 switches, not 64, and you could have more than one if you needed more switching. No gain adjust.

Les

BobTheDog · Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:38 am Post subject:

Sounds like a good plan to me.

seraph · Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:10 am Post subject:

Inventor · Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:14 am Post subject:

seraph · Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:12 am Post subject:

Inventor · Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:17 am Post subject:

Oskar · Joined: Jul 29, 2004 Posts: 1751 Location: Norway

Les, your idea sounds interesting, and once I get out of my "the day after a very nice shool reunion" torpor I shall try and come up with some constructive input.

Antimon · Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:00 am Post subject:

seraph · Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:37 am Post subject:

Oskar · Joined: Jul 29, 2004 Posts: 1751 Location: Norway

GovernorSilver · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:10 pm Post subject:

Another item of interest:
http://www.4mspedals.com/bendmatrix.php

It is also available as a kit if the full price is too high for one's budget.