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Pehr
Joined: Aug 14, 2005 Posts: 1307 Location: Björkvik, Sweden
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:09 pm Post subject:
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There used to be many DIY VCA modules, designed for stereo or even 4 channels, around.. but it seems that the schematics / DIY kit biz is down at the moment.
Anyways, think stereo.. and at least double everything. CV controlled panning is not something new, but I guess it is still not quite accepted as being kosher. You know.. doing pans inside the synth.. UNCOOL!
We did touch upon this subject at least briefly in this thread:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-8105.html
Hmm.. or maybe we didn´t.. at least I mentioned it in there somewhere. I have always been a big fan of thinking spatiality when setting up patches. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18198 Location: Durham, NC
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:15 pm Post subject:
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There was used to be some envelope/VCA module schematics around.. I think it was a 24 page leaflet. at least the 4 first ones were marked Bell Labs. I am trying to remember some details. I bought 2 of the PCBs from the UK.. but that wasn´t from Phonosonic though. Hmm.. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:20 pm Post subject:
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I think the leaflet was called "Think Stereo " and was put together by a german dude who had been involved with some fairly well known magazine DIY project. The ones that were sold in Norway had a greenish cover. There must have been more than 24 pages.. more 48 I guess. A4 format. I built 3 of the modules in there.
Jan? You seen this one? 1978-1980 _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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blue hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24083 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:29 pm Post subject:
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me ?
Have no clue what you are talking about, seems like nice papers though what you mention.
I was going to suggest making a circuit using three VCA's, one to invert the control signal, one controlled by that inverted control signal and the last one controlled by the uninverted control signal.
But then I remembered that no analog synth will have thre VCA's, let alone have a proper DC coupled four quadrant VCA, so this is pretty useless I guess. Apart from that almost no analog synth will have fixed DC control signals available to make the lacking proper VCA do the invert trick.
It's so much more convenient to have this Clavia thingy laying around :-)
Howard's link seems the best thing sofar. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18198 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:31 pm Post subject:
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A panner is simply two VCAs with the control voltage of one of them being the invertion of the other. That's eactly what that schmatic I posted does. _________________ --Howard
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blue hell
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:34 pm Post subject:
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Was I suggsting otherwise ? _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:42 pm Post subject:
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Jan.. that is why those old schematics were very cool.
Those DIY modules left with the Roland 100 modules. I am pretty sure the leaflet went with that gear too.. just in case something needed repairs or something. But this HAS to be on the web somewhere anyway. Even scans of the Formant articles are available on the web now.
Sure, the pan circuit Howard found will do the job just fine, but it is more to this than simply panning stuff.. anyways.. ignore me. I still think the mono layout of everything from analog modulars to prerouted stuff like the Mini was a huge mistake. A tragedy. And then much later varius companies solved the stereo bit by adding a stereo chorus strapped on the synth output. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:43 pm Post subject:
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Blue Hell wrote: | Was I suggsting otherwise ? |
Nope, you weren´t. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:50 pm Post subject:
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Pehr, ignore that link I posted. Whenever someone mentions CV controlled panning I will start thinking spatiality and stereo too. You want simple panning.. go for Howard´s post. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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blue hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24083 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:53 pm Post subject:
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Still no clue :-)
Audio rate panning is fun to do though (and chorusing almost never is fun to use, exceprt maybe when set very very slow). _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:35 pm Post subject:
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http://www.synthesizers.com/q111.html
_________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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mosc
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:59 pm Post subject:
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Blue Hell wrote: | Was I suggsting otherwise ? |
No. I wrote my post while you had alread posted yours. _________________ --Howard
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Pehr
Joined: Aug 14, 2005 Posts: 1307 Location: Björkvik, Sweden
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Rob
Joined: Mar 29, 2004 Posts: 580 Location: The Hague/Netherlands/EC
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:31 am Post subject:
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mosc wrote: | A panner is simply two VCAs with the control voltage of one of them being the invertion of the other. |
It is even possible to use a single VCA, using the VCA output for one output channel, plus a mix of the VCA input signal and a phase reversed copy of the VCA output as the other output channel.
It should be clear that the specific VCA used must amplify in a range between no gain and exactly unity gain. And have a low distortion figure, e.g. a CA3080 chip is no good. But I did built such circuits using the LM13700 chip to great satisfaction. |
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deknow
Joined: Sep 15, 2004 Posts: 1307 Location: Leominster, MA (USA)
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Pehr
Joined: Aug 14, 2005 Posts: 1307 Location: Björkvik, Sweden
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zipzap
Joined: Nov 22, 2005 Posts: 559 Location: germany
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 8:29 am Post subject:
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The Pan/Fade module posted above looks good to me! Since i´ve gaot a quatratur osc now i need some VC crossfader!
This must basically concist of two vcas and a 2 in one mixer. OK, it´s easy to think of how to connect the ins and outs for either mode, but how can you go from one to the other with just one swich? |
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richardc64
Joined: Jun 01, 2006 Posts: 679 Location: NYC
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Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:51 am Post subject:
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Greetings. I've been lurking for some time and this topic moved me to join in.
More years ago than I want to admit, I built a multi-function VCA using only one 3080. It could pan, cross-fade or be used as an ordinary VCA. It worked by putting 2 signals on the inverting and non-inverting inputs of the 3080 and then attenuating one signal or the other as CV rises by subtracting at the outputs. Maybe the schematic will make this clearer.
http://www.sdiy.org/richardc64/mmvca/
The breadboard version worked well enough that I built a Veroboard version. It never made it into my Synth, though. Something distracted me. (I know! It was the Commodore Vic-20 and C64. And then the damn Internet came along. Having to move a couple of times didn't help, either.)
I don't remember the trimming procedure for this circuit or if the control voltage had to be positive-going or +/-. No doubt it can be improved in a few ways. Something for someone to play with
I've recently "rediscovered" my old designs and have been scanning or, in the case of the panning VCA, redrawing them, so they don't get "lost" again.
Here is a bad webcam image of a bad Polaroid of some of the stuff I built.
http://www.sdiy.org/richardc64/proj/mysynths.jpg
You guys have made me want to build things again.
(edit:replaced dead geocities urls) Last edited by richardc64 on Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dnny
Joined: Mar 12, 2005 Posts: 519 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:08 am Post subject:
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richardc64
richardc64 wrote: | You guys have made me want to build things again. |
glad to hear that - there are never too much DIY synths
your system looks beautiful - do you still have it? _________________ Association of experimental electronics
www.koelse.org
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:57 am Post subject:
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That circuit is just too cool for words. Thanks for sharing it!
Cheers,
Scott |
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