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tee
Joined: Mar 04, 2004 Posts: 16 Location: Oxford, PA
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Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:31 pm Post subject:
Nord G2 Patching |
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A few of Electro-music’s members have received their Nord G2’s, so I thought ask a few questions about it. I use Reaktor where you build your own instruments and thereafter create your own sound within your instrument. In the G2 do you creating a sound patch with possibility for tweaking or do you create an instrument with various morph groups, which are then assigned to the knobs for real time manipulation? For example, can you change oscillators from the keyboard or do you have to do that from the patch editor?
I hope that I have formulated a question that is understandable. If not post a question for clarification.
TEE - an introduction of myself will come! |
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seraph
Editor
Joined: Jun 21, 2003 Posts: 12398 Location: Firenze, Italy
Audio files: 33
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 212
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Nord G2 Patching |
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tee wrote: | For example, can you change oscillators from the keyboard or do you have to do that from the patch editor?
I hope that I have formulated a question that is understandable. If not post a question for clarification.
TEE - an introduction of myself will come! |
I've looked at Reaktor. It is very powerful, but when you get down to the level where you acutally design you own synthesis algorithms, then it becomes very arcane and difficult to use. The G2 is designed from the bottom up for users to creat their own patches. The modules are easy to hook up compared to Reaktor. The modules range from a simple switch, through complex 16 stage sequencers, and frequency shifters. You can really do whatever your imagination demands.
As for playability, there is where it really shines. Virtually any control can be brought up to the control surface's 8 rotary encoders and switches. There are 15 pages of these knob assignments, for a total of 120 parameters. Thus you can have immediate control of whatever you want.
Reaktor is stronger in some ways because it has access to various synthesis technologies that aren't available in the G2. Also, it has a built-in sequencer function. That said, the G2's performance interface really is in a class by itself.
Is this the kind of response you were looking for? |
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tee
Joined: Mar 04, 2004 Posts: 16 Location: Oxford, PA
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Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:33 am Post subject:
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Does this mean that I for example can create a NL with all it's various elements and route the sounds the same way. Or should I say, can I create a NL in the patch editor and then assigning different tasks to the knobs and it's pages. I would not have the same user interface of the G2, but through changing the knobs functions I will have NL.
I might making things sound more complicated than it is. In essence I guess I am asking. The patch I make in the editor is just a the routing of the sound. After that I model various sound from that particllar routing and store it as a preset?
As you wrote Mosc, the G2 seem to really user friendly as Reaktor can be quite tedious. I'm truely leaning towards ordering a G2 because of it great possibilities, and maybe because I'm Swedish too |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 212
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:26 am Post subject:
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The answer to all that is yes.
I don't know the NL architecture, but I'd bet it can be modeled on the G2. I'm familiar with the MiniMoog and that could be exactly modeled. You could route very knob and switch to the G2's control surface. Of course, if you wanted a polyphonic MiniMoog, that would be trival.
Quote: | In essence I guess I am asking. The patch I make in the editor is just a the routing of the sound. After that I model various sound from that particllar routing and store it as a preset? |
Let's clarify this. On the right is a screen scrape of the G2 editor showing a very simple patch I've made for illustative purposes.
You can assign and of the knobs or buttons on the screen to the G2 control surface. I've chosen to assign the knobs to four pages, A thru D for, Oscillator, LFO, Filter, and Envelope respectively. One can tweak all of the knobs from the computer screen or the assigned knobs from the control surface. There are only certain ones I will want to use in performance.
The settings of these parameters in the patch (whether assigned to knobs or not) are stored with the patch in the 8 variations.
| Varitation 1 Here's what the control surface of the G2 looks like for variation 1:
You can't see it very well, but the LCDs above the knobs provide labels so you can easilly tell what each knob does. The variations are selected by pushing buttons along the bottom near the middle.
Even with this simple patch, you can see you can get a great deal of variety of sounds. Depending of the frequency of the LFO, how much LFO is fed to the FM input of the oscillator and filter, waveforms, type of filter, pitch setting of filter, resonance, envelope settings etc. Different settings can be stored in the variations, but the basic connectivity remains unchanged for the entire patch.
| Variation 2
When you change variations, the knobs instantly change on the control surface. Also, you can also have the variations change automatically from within the patch via signals control signals, say from a sequencer, or from external midi.
Hope this helps... |
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tee
Joined: Mar 04, 2004 Posts: 16 Location: Oxford, PA
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Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:12 am Post subject:
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Thank you! You answered my question.
I presume that old modular patches can be used in the G2?
TEE |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 212
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:35 am Post subject:
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tee wrote: | Thank you! You answered my question.
I presume that old modular patches can be used in the G2?
TEE |
Unfortunately, no.
If you are from Sweden, then you have to get a G2. It's famous for "Swedish Thinking". |
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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004 Posts: 1148 Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 236
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Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 4:44 pm Post subject:
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mosc -thanks for being so elaborate and graphic on this subject. I appreciate it.
Thanks also for your comments on Reaktor. I looked into it too, but it didn't seem as performer-oriented (which is crucial to me).
What I'm wondering, and what you maybe could answer:
I don't know if you are familiar with the NordLead3, but this fabulous synthesizer has the wonderfully easy way of assigning morph groups to parameters simply by holding down a morph source button and then tweaking the range on the LED-knobs on any of the parameters (meaning: two LEDs show on the collar of the knob: upper and lower range limits). ...the best UI I've ever laid hands on.
Does a similar concept exist for the G2? Meaning: Can one assign morph groups to any of those 120 panel parameters with a similar panel-based procedure? (Or is the handling of morphs and morph ranges relegated to the editor only? ...which would be a drawback, since fine-tuning morphs to one's playing style is something that one would obviously want to do while playing, in a "hands-on" style. I can't warm to the idea of ripping on the keyboard to see if the velocity response feels right and then always have to turn over to grab the mouse and twiddle finnicky knobs on a screen...) |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 212
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:21 am Post subject:
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You had to send me to the manual for this one.
Yes, the G2 is very much the same way. There are 8 morph groups and you can assign any parameter to any group. You can even assign a parameter to multiple groups. This is easy to do in the editor. Of course, you can adjust the range that the morph control has on the target parameter.
You can also do this from the front panel If a parameter is already assigned to a knob, then adjusting the morph range is quite easy. Pretty much like you describe. Apparently they like what they did with the Lead and reused the technique with the G2. The morph range shows up on the knob as two LEDs lit up. I can't say I have the same need to do this as you, but I did try it out on a test patch and it worked. Maybe I'll use it sometime, now that I know about it.
Actually, now that I see how this is done, it's easier to make these range adjustments from the keyboard than with the mouse.
I don't know where Oxford, PA is. I live in Allentown. You are welcome to come over and look the G2 over. If you'd like to do this, please us the PM feature to contact me about this. (Opps, sorry Shoshin, I confused you with Tee. Switzerland is a long way from Allentown to tavel to look at a synthesizer. Tee, however...) |
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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004 Posts: 1148 Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 236
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Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:28 pm Post subject:
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mosc -thanks for looking into this for me.
I'm a performer and keyboard player, and having intuitive hands-on control on how velocity and performance controllers affect the sound is crucial to me.
Now that I know this, the G2 is most definetely my dream synth. I'm even considering getting TWO of these dudes.
Very kind of you to offer a tryout. But yes -the States aren't exactly in my neighborhood.
Hoped to make it to the Frankfurt Musikmesse to check out the G2, but unfortunately I'm in the middle of a concert series then. Too bad.
After too many bad experiences, I swore to forever adhere to the adage "try before you buy" -but this time I might make an exception. I like what I hear, I like what I see, I like what I know -and from using Nord2 and Nord3 for years, I know what to expect in terms of quality and sound. |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 212
G2 patch files: 60
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egw
Stream Operator
Joined: Feb 01, 2003 Posts: 1569 Location: Asheville NC
Audio files: 18
G2 patch files: 8
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:27 am Post subject:
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nice!
I don't have that patch - they must have made a new set of factory patches for V1.1
I'll be sure to download them now.
How many voices do you get with BriteTine? |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 212
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:39 am Post subject:
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egw wrote: | nice! How many voices do you get with BriteTine? |
On my machine with just slot "A" activated, 11.
I should have recorded playing with the sustain pedal held down. It's amazing how well Clavia handled the voice stealing algorithms. With 11 voices you'd think playing with the pedal down would start generating truncated notes. I'm sure it does, but I can't hear them. Hmmm... Bad ears or good algorhythm? |
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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004 Posts: 1148 Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 236
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:06 pm Post subject:
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mosc -thanks for sharing this demo with us.
It sounds great. I'm amazed at the sonic depth that comes through, despite mp3.
I don't know what you mean by "swedish thinking" -but so far Clavia gear has always been the best, IMO.
I like companies that think like real musicians when designing gear. Clavia, IMO, is the only one that has understood that the user interface is actually more important for getting musical results than anything else. That's why their older stuff also still holds up so well -because it's so damn great to use. Great concepts are never outdated. |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 212
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:59 pm Post subject:
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The "Swedish Thinking" is a line from a Clavia magazine ad. It refers to the wooden pitch stick. At first I thought the pitch stick was a bad idea, but I've come to love it - perfect for virbrato. Very expressive. |
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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004 Posts: 1148 Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 236
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Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:57 am Post subject:
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aha, the pitch stick ...
...needs getting used to. But I'm going to hook up a MIDI controller to the G2 anyway for playing the niftier stuff -I heard that the G2 keyboard action isn't exactly too great, and way too small.
I heard that maybe Clavia at some point might consider a second version of the G2, with a bigger and better keyboard. I doubt it. Anyway, the small size of the unit makes it very handy for toting around and putting it next to a computer for patching. I sort of like it's small size. |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 212
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:05 am Post subject:
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shoshin wrote: | aha, the pitch stick ...
I heard that the G2 keyboard action isn't exactly too great, and way too small. |
Yes, if you are a keyboard player, this won't suffice. The G2 is relatively small so it's fairly protable, but without the keyboard itself, it would be grand. If they made a 5 octave board, I'd trade in my 3 octave one for it. While the action is very poor, for the kinds of stuff I play in live performance, it would suffice and it would save me carrying around a dedicated MIDI keyboard. I use the Roland A-37. The action on that isn't all the fantastic either, but it is six octaves and very light. Cointrollers are a matter of personal taste. |
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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004 Posts: 1148 Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 236
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Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:59 pm Post subject:
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Coincidence -I was planning on getting an A-37 too.
It's the only keyboard controller which can manage 2 independent keyzones (as split or layer) and has a foot controller input as well.(...exept if you go for one of those big 88 key masterkeyboards. But they're too big and too heavy and they cost more) |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 212
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:55 pm Post subject:
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Yes. It is very easy to change the split point. You can do it on the fly. It's a compromise, but how wants to lug around a keyboard it takes two people to carry and won't fit in a car? I rarely play splits, I've just gotta have octaves to move around in. |
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tee
Joined: Mar 04, 2004 Posts: 16 Location: Oxford, PA
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Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:18 pm Post subject:
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I guess that you can only have two patches split of the keys on the G2. If you attach a midi keyboard to the G2 will you be able to control a third patch then? Or as with your Roland A-37 four all together? |
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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004 Posts: 1148 Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 236
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:30 am Post subject:
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I intend to use the G2 multitimbrally, playing a slot from it's own keyboard as well as having access to two others from the controller. I don't use splits, but being able to switch on/off 2 independent keyboard layers is essential for my performance. The A-37 is the only synth-type-keyboard controller that can do that.
I wonder: does the A-37 have keyboard-range octave-up/down switches (for keyboard range adjustment)?
I spotted an "up/down" button pair on a JPEG, but maybe that's only for data entry. mosc -enlighten me once more please , thanks.
Concerning G2 multitimbral usage, I'm will most definetely be getting the voice expansion board. |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 212
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:16 am Post subject:
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shoshin wrote: | does the A-37 have keyboard-range octave-up/down switches (for keyboard range adjustment)? |
Not like the Nord, no. You can transpose the keyboard, or splits, up and down, but it's really not a playable operation, IMHO. I don't know all that much about the A-37. I just use it as a keyboard, usually just playing on channel 1 with no layers. You can split it very easilly while playing if you need to. It's just press the split button and press a key. It's got enough octaves to be workable.
There are really powerful keyboard splits available on the G2. It's amazing actually. I you wanted to, and you were flexible, you could play several independent voices from the G2's keyboard. I'm not that flexible. |
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egw
Stream Operator
Joined: Feb 01, 2003 Posts: 1569 Location: Asheville NC
Audio files: 18
G2 patch files: 8
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:44 am Post subject:
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On the G2 you can create a patch that does pretty much any midi processing that you want. E.g. you could have 16 splits on the keyboard (maybe for drum sounds).
I have a patch that uses the variation buttons to switch between sending on different midi channels. They control sounds on an external module (XL-7) so I can have instant access to eight different sounds. |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 212
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:49 am Post subject:
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Ahhh Haaa!
This is very interesting. Would you be so kind as to post this patch or something similar on the patch forum. I'm just starting to explore the G2's MIDI processing capability. |
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egw
Stream Operator
Joined: Feb 01, 2003 Posts: 1569 Location: Asheville NC
Audio files: 18
G2 patch files: 8
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:08 am Post subject:
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Here's the patch:
The part you can't see is that for each variation 1-8, the midi send channel is the same number 1-8. Pitchstick info is sent as midi CC 12.
The column on the right uses the knobs on the G2 to send other midi info specific to the way I use the XL-7 (filter, envelope, arpeggiator on/off). |
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