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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:34 am Post subject:
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The iPhone is just another expensive cellphone. It might be a better phone or a more exciting phone or whatever. I might buy one, or I might not.
The one important issue here is wether or not the battery life is acceptable for a phone in this segment. Apple has chose to use an embedded battery, like the Pod. If your Nokia battery dies you can buy a new and better at 1/5th the price of what Nokia is asking. However, this is not seemingly something you can do with the iPhone battery.
We are still talking about a product which will not be available until summer 2007. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:09 am Post subject:
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v-un-v wrote: |
Well sort of- but it's early days. I think the iphone is still in development and Apple had to announce it prematurely because of the amount of speculation it was already generating, worldwide.
I reckon 3rd party development will come about eventually, but development will have to be approved by Apple- although this is the case for most other smartphones anyway. |
Never mind, once again it turns out things are nothing like I imagined them to be. Turns out those Symbian phones don't even have BASH either. Of cource I imagined that if you would get a phone running Linux it would have BASH and it would come with the source-code suplied on a disc.
When I saw there would be phones runing OSX I imagined I could use one of those to develop ChucK code on in situation where a laptop would be unpractical (I want a Macbook some time in the future and thought these would work together). I actually thought I'd just disable the telephone functionality because I don't trust Apple with security, especially not after the recent wave of QT exploids.
Never mind me, I'll shut up now and stick to my old phone (which is turned off and I don't know where it is nor do I care much). _________________ Kassen |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:14 am Post subject:
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Kassen wrote: | I actually thought I'd just disable the telephone functionality because I don't trust Apple with security, especially not after the recent wave of QT exploits. |
Re the QT "bug"/ myspace worm thingie.. that issue is rather complex and it still ends up as a browser issue which really isn´t an Apple issue alone. We can pursue this in another thread. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:43 am Post subject:
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elektro80 wrote: |
Re the QT "bug"/ myspace worm thingie.. that issue is rather complex and it still ends up as a browser issue which really isn´t an Apple issue alone. We can pursue this in another thread. |
I meant that and the issue with the webcam being able to broadcast all you do for all to see. No need to go into details; my security policy doesn't allow anything done by either Apple or MS to be connected to telephone lines or the internet directly and also hold personal data at the same time. This is enforced rigorously; I actually ripped out the drivers for ethernet from my copy of XP.
I don't care wether something is a "Apple issue alone", when data is lost or compromised being able to place the blame somewhere won't make the problem go away. For all I care it could be entirely due to a external contractor with Apple being blame-less like the case with those video I-pods that came pre-loaded with a Windows trojan out of the factory. _________________ Kassen |
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v-un-v
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Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 8933 Location: Birmingham, England, UK
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:07 am Post subject:
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elektro80 wrote: | Kassen wrote: | I actually thought I'd just disable the telephone functionality because I don't trust Apple with security, especially not after the recent wave of QT exploits. |
Re the QT "bug"/ myspace worm thingie.. that issue is rather complex and it still ends up as a browser issue which really isn´t an Apple issue alone. We can pursue this in another thread. |
This is very true. In fact it was affecting PC users before it came to the attention that it may also affect Mac users. Also Apple were lightning fast to respond to this security issue, releasing a security update within a week. I don't think I've had a Microsoft XP security update for sometime- especially one that addreses this issue anyway. |
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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:36 am Post subject:
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v-un-v wrote: |
This is very true. In fact it was affecting PC users before it came to the attention that it may also affect Mac users. |
I dopn't see how that effects matters.
Quote: | Also Apple were lightning fast to respond to this security issue, releasing a security update within a week. I don't think I've had a Microsoft XP security update for sometime- especially one that addreses this issue anyway. |
I'm not talking about Windows VS Mac. I'm talking about secure systems vs insecure ones. _________________ Kassen |
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bachus
Joined: Feb 29, 2004 Posts: 2922 Location: Up in that tree over there.
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject:
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Ever since working as a programmer on DEC minis in the 70s/80s I've loathed and despised proprietary systems, so Apple never had any appeal to me and I have no real clue about its products so I'll butt out here, Want an iPhone? Beware the iHandcuffs , though I'm sure every one here knows this. _________________ The question is not whether they can talk or reason, but whether they can suffer. -- Jeremy Bentham |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:41 pm Post subject:
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As for the FairPlay drm thingie, basically this is a compromise between what the industry demanded and what Jobs wanted ( no DRM at all ).
Personally I have never bought a track ever from the ITMS. I prefer to rip my own CDs. The iPod is a decent player and it can play several formats. I also use the iPod for storing raw files from my camera when I fill up my memory cards.
In a way you can in fact say that the iPod is DRM free, since it can play various formats that don´t use DRM. It has been and still is a demand from certain players in the music industry that all portable digital music devices should ONLY be able to play music DRM activated schemes. Consider the scope of the HDMI mess. This will only get worse. The iPod and the FairPlay scheme is not the problem. The music industry is the Saddam here. This is exactly the kind of evil the angels of satan are brewing at Bohemian Grove. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:33 pm Post subject:
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Also, there's no reason to run Apple's software on the Ipod; there are several alternatives that will run on Ipod hardware, including a Linux based one that can also run PureData patches which -I think- is quite cool. _________________ Kassen |
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BobTheDog
Joined: Feb 28, 2005 Posts: 4044 Location: England
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:02 am Post subject:
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Kassen wrote: | VunV, BobTheDog, about that Windows CE (I think?) Symbian and now OSX stuff; can you get a actual comand line on any of those phones? It's all good and well that it says "linux" or "OSX" and that's cool in a way but then I imagine you'd like to run stuff. I think people got a version of PD to run on Ipods, it'd be much better to be able to run stuff like that on a phone, after all phones have much more elaborate interfaces and all. So, erm, can we? |
Hi,
Developing for Symbian phones is an absolute nightmare. Porting standard C and C++ stuff to Symbian is a nightmare. This is the main reason that Symbian is a disapearing OS.
Developing for Windows Mobile 2005 (based on the old CE) is very easy now adays. The main issue is memory leaks, on our big fat personal computers looseing a bit of memory every now and then is not a problem on small memory footprint devices this causes problems as the device is rarely turned off and the memory leaks build up.
I have just had a quick look at the PD source code and getting it to run on Windows Mobile would probably not be that much work, tcl/tk works on windows mobile and most of the PD code is straight C.
Cheers
Andy |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:29 am Post subject:
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Kassen wrote: | Also, there's no reason to run Apple's software on the Ipod; there are several alternatives that will run on Ipod hardware, including a Linux based one that can also run PureData patches which -I think- is quite cool. |
At the opposite end of the scale you have nerdmods like this one:
http://www.axiotron.com/
Obviously this is a specialist thingie which is rather expensive and you might be better off with a Macbook anyway. However, if you need one of these and have the cash.. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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opg
Joined: Mar 29, 2004 Posts: 954 Location: Berkeley, CA, US
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:28 am Post subject:
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This is a bit OT (as far as this discussion has been going), but I was told that Apple selected Cingular Wireless for the iPhone. Then I was told that AT&T is buying Cingular. Something about that doesn't sit right with me. _________________ One Player Game | OPG on SoundCloud |
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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:43 am Post subject:
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Yes, Steve Jobs went out of his way to mention that this was very early days for these Apple products.
I never thought I'd want a camera in my phone - couldn't see the use of it since I'm a camera nut and have some really nice cameras. But now I use my cell phone's camera quite a bit to catch shots when I don't have another camera on hand. There are certainly times when I need to take a picture and it doesn't have to be a good picture - like when I have to document a fender bender I find myself in the middle of. The iPhone is 2 MB res, not that bad. In the future I don't see why phones won't have damn good cameras.
Having 8 GB memory capacity and a good mp3 player is nice too. Couple this with a good bluetooth stereo headset and one could get pretty connected to devices like this.
Anyway, I see something like this in my future. I would like it to have a general purpose computing OS though. Gotta run the G2 demo software, you know - and ChucK and ... _________________ --Howard
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject:
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The fact that the announced iPhone has a 160dpi display is interesting. However, in order to get our filty little hands on a decent little computing device, battery time will have to improve, huge solid state memory chips must become cheaper and so forth. The early start with the Newton class of appliances was more a promise of what to come than the real thing. OS X seems like a decent OS for such devices, and Apple has shown that they are on the right track both with displays and a GUI. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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mosc
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Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject:
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Yep, you are right, they are good at GUI and displays. I would like removable memory and replaceable batteries. The latter is indispensable for a phone, not to mention portable audio players.
A good wireless heads-up visual display would be great too... _________________ --Howard
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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject:
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mosc wrote: |
Anyway, I see something like this in my future. I would like it to have a general purpose computing OS though. Gotta run the G2 demo software, you know - and ChucK and ... |
Of cource that's what I immediately thought about; if it has OSX it's run ChucK. Sadly no cigar. Oh, well.... _________________ Kassen |
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mosc
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject:
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I went to the local mall today to buy some underwear - yes, I wouldn't lie about such things. I discovered there is a new Apple store there. It's very nice, well done and nice helpful sales people.
Anyway, they had about four iPhones to try out. Wow, I was very impressed. The price is down to $399. Still expensive, but it's really nice. I was able to browse the web with the Safari browser. It works very well. The screen is easy to read. Typing is pretty easy with a nice one finger interface. Clicking on small links worked fine and I could even play mp3s from attachments. I was able to log on to electro-music.com and reply to forum posts.
This is a great device for me. I'm very seriously considering getting one. I would have to add internet and SMS capability to my existing phone account, but that will be $20 per month - seems worth it.
BTW the browsing speed was pretty fast - not like my cable modem at home, but quite usable.
There were a lot of people there checking it out. No wonder Apple stock is so high. They have a good business plan.
Before I jump onto the iPhone bandwagon, does anyone suggest an alternative product? _________________ --Howard
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v-un-v
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Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 8933 Location: Birmingham, England, UK
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:16 pm Post subject:
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mosc wrote: |
Before I jump onto the iPhone bandwagon, does anyone suggest an alternative product? |
Mosc,
You could look at Palm's smartphones- especially the 680, but I'd steer clear of the Windows Mobile OS option, as it's rather buggy (hmm where have I heard that before )
BUT- if you liked the iPhone, go for it. (I'd also check the connectivity in other areas too ) _________________ ACHTUNG!
ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN. |
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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:23 pm Post subject:
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Windows on phones is teh sux, I hear nothing but trouble about it.
BUT I'm 99% sure US Iphones aren't going to work in Europe.
Browsing and mailing on phones is something that -in my experience- people get enthusiastic about, then never use again after a while. GPS with route-planning on the other hand is something that people keep using. Not sure the Iphone has that.
On the positive side, I just read Apple opened the thing to third parties so that could well become lots and lots of fun. _________________ Kassen |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:28 pm Post subject:
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Nope, the current iPhone doesn´t have GPS. That will come in later versions.
As for surfing the web, the browser seems pretty decent and resizing/scolling works amazingly well. However, we will see webapps for the iPhone/iPod Touch. The iTunes Music Store works great. The wireless lan networking is excellent as well. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject:
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As for writing emails.. that works OK, but I wouldn´t bother to write more than a few sentences at a time using the current input system ( which is pretty good - make no mistake about it. ). The main point is checking email.
I´m also expecting a Filemaker version for the iPhods _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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Kassen
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:33 pm Post subject:
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GPS on phones can be very useful but maybe that's more of a Euro thing where inner cities are A) confusing and B) hard to access by cars and so it's useful to be able to take the GPS out of the car. _________________ Kassen |
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v-un-v
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Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 8933 Location: Birmingham, England, UK
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject:
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Kassen wrote: |
On the positive side, I just read Apple opened the thing to third parties so that could well become lots and lots of fun. |
yeah- I just read that too. Olivier Gillet who made Bhajis Loops said that he would develop BL's for iPhone if this happened. Hooray!!
Also I think why people got pissed with browsing on thier phones over here is because generally the technology sucked. I really want to see if Apple have fixed this. _________________ ACHTUNG!
ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN. |
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v-un-v
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Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 8933 Location: Birmingham, England, UK
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject:
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elektro80 wrote: | I´m also expecting a Filemaker version for the iPhods |
Right...
( iPhods = iPhone and iPod Touch ) _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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