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Dimension T: A Dimension Effect Based On The Tau Phaser
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germaniac



Joined: Aug 04, 2006
Posts: 200
Location: California
Audio files: 7

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:

Oh, I was aiming to sound subtle. No problem to create dramatic effects with this setup, too. Wait until there's two-LFO modulation and a high modulation index here!

Ah. It may also be that my tastebuds are desensitized from a diet too rich in spicy foods. Wink Meanwhile, I'll continue to pay attention here. . . .

jhaible wrote:

No need to go for polypropylene when they are combined with a resistance of exponential nonlinearity, IMO. And be glad that I don't design around this huge Box of *splendid* 47nF polystyrene caps I bought from former GDR stock years ago. They are 1%, and something like 2.5cm * 2.5cm! Razz

Well, I've never been afraid of overkill--more bigger!

Gavomad wrote:
I think the plan is to also include a "bias" knob to set the center frequency, and then have a second independent anti-phase LFO with rate and depth controls, and a level control for the delayed effect. I think you can increase the level of wash using these controls, even without regen controls....

Hm, the possibilities are ever tantalizing. . . .

Regards,
Joe
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v8pete wrote:
One thing that comes to mind - I wonder if it would be possible to include within the CA3046 DIL footrpint, the SMD pad footrint for the LM3046M? Unlike the CA3046, the LM3046M is still in production, and available at less than 44p a shot here in the UK (Farnell).


I tried layouting this for both, DIL and SOIC package.
Unfortunately, the SOIC footprint doesn't fit inside the DIL footprint; so I had to arrange it such that it's half inside:
first row of DIL pads
first row of SOIC pads
second row of DIL pads
second row of SOIC pads.
Makes it take a little more space than with just DIL.
(The Caps go all on the other side - so my first idea was that the entire set of 2 all pass filter stages wouldn't be larger than a single DIL14 footrint ...)

I wonder how hard it would be to get DIL CA3046s.
I had no problems to buy 100 pieces last week.
(They came in an RCA tube (!) - must be old - I wonder if they are as good as the Intersil parts ...)

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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b-funk



Joined: Jul 17, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well, at least in germany it is really easy to get ca3046s - reichelt carries them at 0.42 €...
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paologatto



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yes, also Banzaieffects have them, at 0,60 €.
http://www.banzaieffects.com/CA3046-pr-16748.html

They have in stock and I had no problem ordering from Italy just few days ago.

PS: hello everybody! This is my first post, although I read this forum since many years. cat
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

b-funk wrote:
well, at least in germany it is really easy to get ca3046s - reichelt carries them at 0.42 €...


That's where I always got mine.
And always Intersil parts - until my last order, which were all RCA ...

JH.

Now playing: Peter Gabriel, Passion

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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hachiman



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sorry for being lazy & stuff , but this project goin to have its own PCB , or its composed of 2 TAU boards? (So i have to order now)
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v8pete



Joined: Jan 27, 2008
Posts: 43
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OOps..missed the last week or so's posts on this one! Yes it does seem that the DIL versions are not too hard to find here in the UK, but the prices seem definitely on the way up. My personal view is that a board which could accommodate both DIL & SMT would be ideal, although a bit of a headache for JH to track. As I do quite a bit of surface mount assembly & prototyping, I'd just like more people to realise that as long as you don't choose the stupidly small parts, then it really is no harder & in some cases quicker & easier, than the DIL alternatives!

Pete.
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mono-poly



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi JH

Is this still a go ?

Cheers,

Dennis
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's an idea:

The Dim D, with balanced inputs and outputs and all, will probably not fit onto a 160mm x 100mm board.

I could make one board with two BBDs and companders and anti-aliasing filters, plus an extra VC LFO ("BBD board")

A second board with the balanced input / output circuitry and the filtering / qualizing / crosscoupling, and the LFO, that is the heart of the Dim D. ("Main Board")

Then you'd have the following options:

(A)
Main Board + BBD board = Dim D.

(B)
Main Board + two Tau Boards (party populated) = Dim T.

(C)
BBD board alone can be used as standalone Rol@nd-like dual-BBD chorus (without emulating any synth chorus in particular, but probably being close to what is found in Juno 60 or JX-3P)

(D)
Main Board + BBD board + two Tau boards = Dim D + T.
That's the one I'll build for myself. Smile
switch between the rather static / nicely unobtrusive Dim D and the shimmering Dim T.

I just played my CS-80 thru the Dim T prototype again. I *love* what it does to the sound. I'll probably sell my CS-80 again (different story ... Shocked ), but I want that Dimension T.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The question is JH, and it was my biggest 'criticism' of the Tau Phaser (if anyone can criticise such a classic machine?), wasn't that the Tau had 'that' through sound, but it lacked the chaotic randomness that 2 Revox machines had when they were slightly out of sync with each other. ie the Tau goes up then down then up again and so on, but the real thing went unpredictably all over the place- so to speak. If you really wanted that psychedelic whooshing sound, the trick would be to build an LFO with a randomness that mimicked the chaos. Do you see what I'm getting at? Listen to Kraftwerk's Ruckzuck from their 1st LP

starts at approx 3 mins

Oh yes, the Dim T sounds like lots of fun. With a chaotic LFO too?? Shocked

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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
The question is JH, and it was my biggest 'criticism' of the Tau Phaser (if anyone can criticise such a classic machine?), wasn't that the Tau had 'that' through sound, but it lacked the chaotic randomness that 2 Revox machines had when they were slightly out of sync with each other. ie the Tau goes up then down then up again and so on, but the real thing went unpredictably all over the place- so to speak. If you really wanted that psychedelic whooshing sound, the trick would be to build an LFO with a randomness that mimicked the chaos. Do you see what I'm getting at? Listen to Kraftwerk's Ruckzuck from their 1st LP

starts at approx 3 mins

Oh yes, the Dim T sounds like lots of fun. With a chaotic LFO too?? Shocked


Doesn't Ian Fritz offer a chaotic modulation source?
I might just provide a CV in, which leaves a lot of possibilities ...

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
The question is JH, and it was my biggest 'criticism' of the Tau Phaser (if anyone can criticise such a classic machine?), wasn't that the Tau had 'that' through sound, but it lacked the chaotic randomness that 2 Revox machines had when they were slightly out of sync with each other. ie the Tau goes up then down then up again and so on, but the real thing went unpredictably all over the place- so to speak. If you really wanted that psychedelic whooshing sound, the trick would be to build an LFO with a randomness that mimicked the chaos. Do you see what I'm getting at? Listen to Kraftwerk's Ruckzuck from their 1st LP

starts at approx 3 mins


Nice effect. Smile

The problem with emulating this is that the Tau doesn't really go thru zero. The 1/x modulation waveform just gives an impression of thru zero to a certin degree (by faking one aspect of it), nothing more.
It would be interesting to find out how randomness in the modulation signal can bring it more into the direction of what we hear on your Kraftwerk clip.
Try this if you like (I haven't tried it; curious about teh resukt myself!):
Refering to http://www.jhaible.heim.at/tau/jh_tau_sch_page3_control.pdf ,
add a resistor at pin 2 of U6A and use it to feed some white noise into the LFO's integrator stage. This is not FM with noise (which would be the first idea that comes to mind, but requires a VCLFO), but it's like noise fed into a 1st order PLL. The resistor value depends on the noise level - experiment, and let us know what you find!

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oops, I just noticed the last 3 posts (including my 2 ones) belong to the Tau Thread, not to the Dim T thread.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Peake



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
The question is JH, and it was my biggest 'criticism' of the Tau Phaser (if anyone can criticise such a classic machine?), wasn't that the Tau had 'that' through sound, but it lacked the chaotic randomness that 2 Revox machines had when they were slightly out of sync with each other. ie the Tau goes up then down then up again and so on, but the real thing went unpredictably all over the place- so to speak. If you really wanted that psychedelic whooshing sound, the trick would be to build an LFO with a randomness that mimicked the chaos.


Tape and vinyl did not have speed accuracy, hence its greater level of interest than digital recording/playback.

Wogglebug smooth CV output is a perfect method of breaking up the periodicity of an LFO- but you'd have to add summing to the Tau to mix the internal LFO and an external signal, which IIRC Jurgen mentions as being tricky.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Peake wrote:
v-un-v wrote:
The question is JH, and it was my biggest 'criticism' of the Tau Phaser (if anyone can criticise such a classic machine?), wasn't that the Tau had 'that' through sound, but it lacked the chaotic randomness that 2 Revox machines had when they were slightly out of sync with each other. ie the Tau goes up then down then up again and so on, but the real thing went unpredictably all over the place- so to speak. If you really wanted that psychedelic whooshing sound, the trick would be to build an LFO with a randomness that mimicked the chaos.


Tape and vinyl did not have speed accuracy, hence its greater level of interest than digital recording/playback.


Indeed. The effect would at best result in what I would call thick, vibrant and live sounding bounces. The modern analog warmth concept doesn´t really come close to what this is about.

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gavgomad



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
I could make one board with two BBDs and companders and anti-aliasing filters, plus an extra VC LFO ("BBD board")

A second board with the balanced input / output circuitry and the filtering / qualizing / crosscoupling, and the LFO, that is the heart of the Dim D. ("Main Board")

Then you'd have the following options:

(A) Main Board + BBD board = Dim D.

(B) Main Board + two Tau Boards (party populated) = Dim T.

(C) BBD board alone can be used as standalone Rol@nd-like dual-BBD chorus (without emulating any synth chorus in particular, but probably being close to what is found in Juno 60 or JX-3P)

(D) Main Board + BBD board + two Tau boards = Dim D + T.
That's the one I'll build for myself. Smile
switch between the rather static / nicely unobtrusive Dim D and the shimmering Dim T.


I like this idea as well.... I guess my only concern is that I haven't been on the Tau wagon to date, and would need to pick up a couple of Tau boards....

Although there would be much circuitry in such a combo, I can see a very simple but useful interface - perhaps a switch between the modes (DimD/DimT), and the four presets, with a "manual" switch with manual control of the LFO speed and depth, and maybe a global "filter bias" knob for the DimT mode....

But then again, in the mix are possible two full Tau's, and a Juno-style chorus, if they could be separated by another switch set.... How feasible would it be it to wire things up so they can be connected/disconnected like this on the fly (ie. CMOS switches etc.)? I don't think I'd ever need two Tau's, but it would be nice to run them in true stereo....

Gotta save up for more boards though.... Wink

Gav
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

gavgomad wrote:
jhaible wrote:
I could make one board with two BBDs and companders and anti-aliasing filters, plus an extra VC LFO ("BBD board")

A second board with the balanced input / output circuitry and the filtering / qualizing / crosscoupling, and the LFO, that is the heart of the Dim D. ("Main Board")

Then you'd have the following options:

(A) Main Board + BBD board = Dim D.

(B) Main Board + two Tau Boards (party populated) = Dim T.

(C) BBD board alone can be used as standalone Rol@nd-like dual-BBD chorus (without emulating any synth chorus in particular, but probably being close to what is found in Juno 60 or JX-3P)

(D) Main Board + BBD board + two Tau boards = Dim D + T.
That's the one I'll build for myself. Smile
switch between the rather static / nicely unobtrusive Dim D and the shimmering Dim T.


I like this idea as well.... I guess my only concern is that I haven't been on the Tau wagon to date, and would need to pick up a couple of Tau boards....

Although there would be much circuitry in such a combo, I can see a very simple but useful interface - perhaps a switch between the modes (DimD/DimT), and the four presets, with a "manual" switch with manual control of the LFO speed and depth, and maybe a global "filter bias" knob for the DimT mode....


Yes - simple user interface is the idea. And to fill a rackmount enclosure (where there is a lot of air in an original Dimen sion D).
Maybe the whole Dim D + T would fit into a 1U enclosure.
Personally, I probably won't even bringout the manual rate and depth stuff (I like the preset concept: Get an optimized effect instantly), but everybody can do this as he or she likes.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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StephenGiles



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I was in a farm field watching Biggin Hill Air Fair this afternoon, and for me by far the best display was that of the Typhoon (Eurofighter). I made small movies of it with the really crap sound from my Camera, but on one the Doppler Effect was superb and I swear the effect went through zero. I will post it when converted to a suitable file size.

(A few of those in Afghanistan would certainly put the shits up the taliban!)
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