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Ever get this sorta feeling?
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is this a petition or something i am supposed to sign? I can do that.. where do I sign? Shocked
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey... I just found a bit of cheese on my disk. This is almost embarassing.. but hey.. we can all make mistakes.. This is a recording we did.. a rehearsel.. and then it turned into a jam session.. we went places we ordinarily don´t go at all.. like into Miami Vice country..
This is no composition.. just an outtake from a long and embarassing jamsession.. and yes.. there are mistakes and bad notes in here.. all over the place.. Shocked Embarassed
Screaming laughter and tears ...? Arrgh Embarassed


a jam - lotsa cheese.mp3
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Hey... I just found a bit of cheese on my disk. there are mistakes and bad notes in here.. all over the place.. Shocked Embarassed
Screaming laughter and tears ...? Arrgh Embarassed


What are you trying to tell us?
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Not much really..
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bachus



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey electro—not all that bad, perhaps a bit more like Cheese Whiz than Gorgonzola than one might want, but nothing to be embarrassed about, especially for a jam session.

As to the thorn in my side: Early this past week I finally saw the whole thing in my mind’s ear (though a bit obscured by all the hair and wax). Anyway >90% is written out and 30% is ready for a final mix, so at least I have an idea of where end is and I have been able to get out of obsession mode. I’m thinking about taking off a couple of weeks to do something light before the final push on this one. Still vacillating between “it’s crap” and “it’s going to be OK.”

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bachus



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

electro I like your new avatar a lot, but is the gamma really where you want it? It may well be; I'm just curious about the choice.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Smile
yes.. the gamma is spot on.. i did a tone separation right now you see.. Smile

We are watching this tesla documentary right.. I im the mood for serious business

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bachus wrote:
Hey electro—not all that bad, perhaps a bit more like Cheese Whiz than Gorgonzola than one might want, but nothing to be embarrassed about, especially for a jam session.


All things considered, it is not all bad, and there are some very cute ideas in there... but the whole thing is a bit tasteless ....
Eeeeeeek.... Well.. I posted this one just to actually have on record how it can sound when ... well... ok... I remember it as great fun even though...

bachus wrote:

As to the thorn in my side: Early this past week I finally saw the whole thing in my mind’s ear (though a bit obscured by all the hair and wax). Anyway >90% is written out and 30% is ready for a final mix, so at least I have an idea of where end is and I have been able to get out of obsession mode. I’m thinking about taking off a couple of weeks to do something light before the final push on this one. Still vacillating between “it’s crap” and “it’s going to be OK.”


It is a very short distance from crap to gold and diamonds.. it often lies in the implementation. I advice you to not be too critical but pay attention to the actual implementation of the ideas. I have hard to believe anything yu can produce will be bad. I am pretty sure this will be great stuff!

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the encouragement. I have to say, the studio part, the implementation, is being the most difficult and is the most daunting. The "I Knew a Man" song was the first piece out of my new studio and the first piece I have "released" publicly in decades. The current piece requires a complex mix far beyond anything I have done in the past. I need a good book recommendation. (I'm really old school and still need books.)
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Hey... I just found a bit of cheese on my disk.


holy eighties Exclamation did you have it on tape Question

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It´s a shocking thing isn´t it?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:

holy eighties Exclamation


Very Happy Shocked Very Happy Cool
I just knew you would see this my way... hehe..
Always trust the omnipotent Seraph!!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bachus wrote:
I need a good book recommendation. (i'm really old school and still need books.)


Robert, you don't need no stinkin' books. That's just some bullshit you tell yourself when you feel unworthy. Tell that little voice, "thank you very much for your opinion, but this time I'm going to listen to my friend."

You are brilliant. You know more than most composers. Your mind is vast, huge, immense. Just jump in and do this music. Now is the time. You are prepared. You have the vision. You can hear it in your head. Now you have a community pulling for you.

Don't be afraid that the output won't be perfect - it is impossible that it will be. It won't be what you hear - it never can be. I have no doubt that it will be something grand - for us. When we will hear it, we'll hear something grand in our own heads. Go for it, please...
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bachus wrote:
Thanks for the encouragement. I have to say, the studio part, the implementation, is being the most difficult and is the most daunting. The "I Knew a Man" song was the first piece out of my new studio and the first piece I have "released" publicly in decades. The current piece requires a complex mix far beyond anything I have done in the past. I need a good book recommendation. (I'm really old school and still need books.)




There are no books out there. OK.. you have a few, but those will not help you much. This forum is probably the best support you will ever get. I hope to get some of my buddies working with huge classcial music projects involved here soon.. they are probably the only few pro resources available in this field.( when speaking of really huge projects ) My own projects are huge too , at least in the number of tracks and in mixing complexity. I have spent 2 years trying to learn how to swing this.. and I have given up... not in doing this myself. far from it.. but in getting sensible help from anyone else. A close friend of mine who has experience with huge projects..like a recent mixingof an old brit 70s act.. with 128 tracks recroded live.. he gets dizzy when he sees who my cubase projects look like.
You can make this happen. Get going and keep us informed of the progress. -And ask for advice. You probably knows best anyway.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Howard you nice person you, if I could live up to half of your estimation of me I'd be thrilled. Embarassed Very Happy Fear not, I am determined to do this and your advice is well taken. But I have to tell you that at times I feel nearly overwhelmed by the total complexity of music and technology combined. Gitt'n old Howard.

But, I am inspired by this place and most grateful for it. And I thank you for it Howard, as well as for your good words.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And thank you Stein for that information and advice.

You mention huge. It's more that my experience is so limited. This thing is only about 9 minutes long. But it does look like it will have upwards of a hundred tracks by the time it is done.

Another problem is deciding how much time to spend on tyring to get some semblance of expressive phrasing out of myself and my rig. I am not happy and can not seem to get happy with it. I may have to accept "minimal unhappiness" as a goal. puker

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bachus wrote:
But it does look like it will have upwards of a hundred tracks by the time it is done.

That does not sound unreasonable, but yes,, that is a lot of tracks. [/quote]

bachus wrote:
Another problem is deciding how much time to spend on tyring to get some semblance of expressive phrasing out of myself and my rig. I am not happy and can not seem to get happy with it. I may have to accept "minimal unhappiness" as a goal. puker


That is always a problem. I guess every one of us are struggling with that one. What kind of voices are we talking about here?

Robert Hagstrøm sent me some CDs. some of the music was recorded with real instruments, but most of he symphonic works were done by himself using Gigasampler. He managed to make it sound very real and very expressive. I am sure you can too.
The best way to handle this at this stage is getting the first tracks down.. like the first 40 or so.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well..re Robert Hagstrøm. This is the current URL I have, but it seems like some of the music is inaccessible:
http://www.amo.se/robert/

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Minimal unhappiness? More bullshit. No wonder your avatar is a bull Twisted Evil

You deserve maximum happiness...

Unhappiness comes from unresonable expectations that are not met.

Don't be attached to the outcome. When you are attached to the outcome, then you are being a victim, you have no power over your life. When you are not attached, then you are free, powerful, creative, brave, enthusiastic, open, caring, supportive and more than minimally unhappy.

Don't be attached to what happens, because like we discovered in another thread, you never really know what happens anyway. There are just stories we make up about it.

Also, who really has control over what happens? None of us here. At least I'm not in control of what happens. Anybody? So if you have no control over what happens, why give your self over to it?

Think about it - we have no control over what happens, and we don't even know what happens when it does happen! Truth is a probability, just like the subatomic particles. All we have control over is who we are BEING right NOW.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Truth is a probability, just like the subatomic particles. All we have control over is who we are BEING right NOW.


well said........

and gets right at the heart of matter..

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

To quote John Lennon - and it's better if you imagine this in a thick Scouse accent: Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Robert, you don't need no stinkin' books. That's just some bullshit you tell yourself when you feel unworthy. Tell that little voice, "thank you very much for your opinion, but this time I'm going to listen to my friend."

that's a lovely thing to say, Oh Captain! My Captain! love

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Unhappiness comes from unresonable expectations that are not met.


I'd be inclined to say that applies to trivial and/or self-inflicted unhappiness. Which admittedly is what we are talking about here.

mosc wrote:
Don't be attached to the outcome. When you are attached to the outcome, then you are being a victim, you have no power over your life. When you are not attached, then you are free, powerful, creative, brave, enthusiastic, open, caring, supportive and more than minimally unhappy.


There is much merit in what you say particularly as a general life principle. (But it has its limits. I'm not sure I would be entirely comfortable going to a surgeon who has that attitude.) But we're talking about my flipp'n phrasing here and I claim the absolute right to be unhappy with it in its present state (nya, nya, nya!).

There are many different and valid reasons for creating music. I write because there are things I need to say. That need may or may not be rational but it is real and if what comes out is not what I am trying to say then that need is not fulfilled. I try to focus on the pleasure to be had from the creative and problem solving process but sometimes developing the skill and vision required for a solution is excruciatingly difficult. And even though I have been able to pass through brick walls by pounding my head on them for a sufficient length of time, I bitch about it a lot.

mosc wrote:
Also, who really has control over what happens? None of us here. At least I'm not in control of what happens. Anybody? So if you have no control over what happens, why give your self over to it?


Interesting point. In the past my connection with music was pure composition--just writing notes on paper--a purely abstract mental process which being divorced from the physical world was open to the possibility of perfection. That has always been one of the attractions of music for me both as a listener and composer. When creating the realization (performance) becomes part of the process the nature of the game changes quite a bit. And these waters are still new to me.

mosc wrote:
Truth is a probability, just like the subatomic particles.


Here I have substantial problems. (But you know me, I'm a nit picking literalist.) First, some of the most beautiful truths are those found in mathematics and these are ultimately axiomatic and tautological and not probabilistic. Truths in the domain of the real world are contextual. Some are probabilistic and some are not. If a state vector has collapsed and the cat is dead there is zero truth to the assertion that it is still alive, even if no one has yet looked in the box. (post 70's research has shown that consciousness is not required to collapse a state vector). Now we are down to aesthetic truths and here the situation is quite different. These are truths of the heart and in this realm truth is in the ear of the listener and nowhere else.

mosc wrote:
All we have control over is who we are BEING right NOW.


With that I agree completely.

And I will see what I can do about lessening my attachment to outcomes. The trick of course is not to decrease the attachment to the point that it reduces motivation to promote desirable ones. ( I mean, if all the liberals in the US sit around unattached to the outcome of the next election, we’ll get Bush whacked again!)

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
That is always a problem. I guess every one of us are struggling with that one.


That's comforting. After listening to Carlo's tour de force in phrasing "Lullaby", I was beginning to wonder.

elektro80 wrote:
What kind of voices are we talking about here?


Highly layered quasi orchestral. The bass line for example is the VSL sustained strings, Yamaha S90 "Stringy", Cube "Classic Strings", EMu V2000 "FulLegHall," and EMuPlanetEarth p/123 "1001Strings. The latter two with tweaking of attack and decay times. Another voice is composed of three bassoons and a vox voice. The passage most vexing is verrrry slow and the VSL Legato performance tool does not support any of the sustained/looped samples. The layering is a complication because I have to use multiple midi tracks for the same voice so that I can apply different note overlaps to the different tracks in those cases where tweaking envelopes is problematic. And sometimes no amount of tweaking of either midi data or envelopes gets me what I want.

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Last edited by bachus on Sun Aug 08, 2004 9:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
mosc wrote:
Robert, you don't need no stinkin' books. That's just some bullshit you tell yourself when you feel unworthy. Tell that little voice, "thank you very much for your opinion, but this time I'm going to listen to my friend."

that's a lovely thing to say, Oh Captain! My Captain! love


Not if your a bibliophile like me Shocked Very Happy

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