Why is IDM scene so limited in the US?

mosc

I was talking to someone on another list and he mentioned: "i'll tell ya, there's not much of a idm scene here in the u.s..".

I wonder why that is...

Anyone have any thoughts?

Static Strobe Emitter · Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:59 pm Post subject: Hmmmms....

Can't tell there is much of an IDM scene here i sweden :///

Almost EVERY friend I have listen to "normal" Trance music.
that is so tragic. I have converted 1 or 2 of them to enjoy more complex
music though.

elektro80 · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:37 am Post subject:

I am still not quite sure what IDM adn EBM is.. mjsically. Some of the examples I have heard sounds like a mix of Ultravox:Rage In Eden / early techno with a brit gothic flair, a dash of Rammstein and then .. somwthing. Quite enjoyable, but.. I have no idea what it is anyway.

But yes... complexity.. good point..

seraph · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:41 am Post subject:

could anyone explain to me all these acronyms?
EBM stand for electronic body music but what the hell is that?

elektro80 · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:44 am Post subject:

Right... what is that? Is that in techno terms what Daffy Duck is compared with Donald Duck?

mosc · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 1:14 pm Post subject:

I thought IDM was intellegent Dance Music. See: http://music.hyperreal.org/lists/idm/

I knew a musician, a guitar player, back in the sixties that thought dance was the "lowest from of music appreciation". He was a professional musician playing at clubs and stuff. He was instrumental Rolling Eyes

in talking me out of trying to make a living playing Rock music. He would surely have said Intellegent Dance Music is an oxymoron. I used to agree with him because for a while my exposure to dancers was either drunks on the make or snooty (how's that, Carlo?) egotists that looked at music as simply a vehicle to accompany their movements while they showed off their beautiful bodies and athletic abilities.

Then one wonderful day, I was asked to compose some music for Margaret Jenkins in San Fransisco. She is a magnificent choreographer. Watching her company dance to my music was mind blowing. She showed me things I didn't even know were in my own music!

I don't think IDM has much to do with modern dance, but I can't resist telling a story.

elektro80 · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 1:24 pm Post subject:

Great story. Great point made.
OK.. some music can get you into a mood where you feel like moving your body to the music. Which is something completely different.. most of the techno/dance stuff is meant for that great ballroom trance high on whatnot. Hmm.. and.. some guys speak of IDM as music not primarily meant for that kinda use. Dunno. I overheard a discussion last weekend and it seems like one man´s IDM is another´s toilet paper. IDM possibly describes more the intentions than a genre.. anyway.. this is not as easy to pin down as for instance the Vienna waltzes etc etc etc

zynthetix · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:20 pm Post subject: some of my thoughts on IDM

First things first: the definition of Intelligent Dance Music. I think Robert Whiteman of audiogalaxy.com put it best in an editorial from a couple years ago, which can be found at:

http://www.audiogalaxy.com/depts/electronica/?id=1&editorial_id=80

To summarize the article and what qualifies as IDM, heres an excerpt:

"Basically, it seems that IDM applies to music that:
a) Uses Weird Sound. odd, noisy, alienating and obscure samples. Squelched beats, jagged synth lines, static washes, electrical shorts.
b) Defies rhythmic convention. Most good IDM draws from harsh jungle or arrythmic ambient drift, and throws in plenty of curves: sudden starts, stops, and odd changes. It’s like electronic Free Jazz.
c) Presents an Academic Image. All good IDM artists will either refuse to be photographed, use building blueprints as album art, call themselves Cerebral without irony, or claim to build all their own synthesizers. From scratch.
d) Can’t be danced to. Unless you do the Robot."

I don't think I could describe "IDM" any better than that. Laughing

That aside, I think the "IDM" scene in the US is becoming bigger in the past few years. I think the one of the greatest contributors to this would be Hefty Records of Chicago. Hefty features artists such as Savath+Savalas, Slicker, Beneath Autumn Sky, T. Rauschmirre, and Telefon Tel Aviv (who's made some of my favorite music in the past few years...they use no hardware synths, only NI's Reaktor software Wink

.... www.telefontelaviv.com) In only a few years of the label's existence, Hefty has the diversity it took Warp Records (who I consider the largest IDM label) over 10 years to establish. (Warp records features artists such as Aphex Twin, Squarepusher, Prefuse 73 and too many others to mention.... www.warprecords.com)

In addition, Prefuse 73 is on a North American tour with Dabrye as I type. Very Happy

(Prefuse 73 is Scott Herren aka Savath + Savalas...the Prefuse 73 material may not qualify as strict "IDM", but it can at least be described as IDM meets hip-hop, pre-fusion jazz, and sound collages/"noise".) Maybe there are lots of "IDM" shows in other countries where there are larger "IDM" scenes, but something like this tour doesn't seem to happen often in the US. I've also seen Prefuse 73 in a lot of magazine articles since his album release in the summer...normally the only magazine coverage I see on "IDM" artists is a blurb on Aphex Twin now and then. Four Tet has been getting some media attention as well...

prefuse 73 tourdates: http://www.warprecords.com/p73live/

If you ask me, the "IDM" scene in the US may be small in comparrison to the "IDM" scene of Europe, but I think the US scene is going to get much larger in the next few years (if I can help it Wink

).

Sorry this thread is a bit long winded but "IDM/noise" is my favorite form of electronic music Very Happy

.

seraph · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:26 pm Post subject:

As a teenager I use to play keyboards in a band called "Pianola Gay"
I used to wear suspenders (one of two supporting bands worn across the shoulders to support trousers, skirt, or belt -- usually used in plural and often with pair) because I thought they made me look very "snooty" on stage. Were we playing Intelligent Dance Music? Sure did Shocked

P.S.
the singer moved to Spain where he is now an appreciated tailor.
Does it say anything to you?

elektro80 · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:30 pm Post subject:

Well.. hmm.. probably a lot.. cannot quite think of anything right now though

The defintion of IDM up above seems like something which could possibly match a whole lot of various music. SOunds cool though.. I feel some of it might be slightly ironic but that does not bother me much. Listening to telefon tel A ViV right now.

seraph · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:32 pm Post subject:

why people use so many labels: IDM, EBM, KGB, NASA?
I do not get it Shocked

elektro80 · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:34 pm Post subject:

Hmm.. if we ask the ghost of Sigmund Freud I am afraid he wil blame his mother. His own mother that is.

zynthetix · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:26 pm Post subject:

elektro80 · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:34 pm Post subject:

applause!!!!!!!

I agree! Very Happy

invisibl · Joined: Sep 25, 2003 Posts: 23

distribution requires categorizing AGREED!!!

Plus I assume we all are lazy and at some point, once a description has reached a general ability to be recognised by its acronym, Then we shorten the lil bugger.

Actually back on topic, I think that there are 2 types of music to come out of amerika.

The underground which rarely gets exposed ( as opposed to music which is marketed as underground. Oxymorons)

and crap pop. And by crap pop I mean ALL hiphop,Rock,Metal,Country,americana and every permutation thereof.

Music is about feelings, IMO, and as soon as it gets marketed, It assumes a lack of feeling that is directly proportionate to how much money is spent on it.

(Disclaimer) I probably read like I am a whole bunch more grinchy than i am in real life....

AgentA · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 4:53 am Post subject:

I didn't know there was a lack of idm here in the states.
Maybe no big names as of yet?

Good thread here. Dig the clarification and anecdotes etc.

I've read that some jokingly refer to IDM as acronym for "it doesn't matter."

Also known as "brain dance music."

Granted, genre labels are somewhat off the mark but they are somewhat helpful for listeners seeking specific forms of music online. Why sift through hundreds of "electronic" tracks when all I want at the moment is
"minimal abstract noise" (okay that's a hybrid but you get my drift..)

I use the labels and make up my own when describing tracks on my playlists, just in case listeners want to skip ahead. I mean, I can be certain I won't enjoy any thing that chooses to be lableled, "trance" and I'm grateful for the label to help me to avoid it.

I'm not so sure I've a thorough idea of what IDM is but I wouldn't be surprised to hear something "glitchy" with micro beats and digital sound processing or ambient contortions or all of the above.

You can hear a good dose of IDM on XStreme Radio
http://xstreamradio.free.fr/

elektro80 · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:05 am Post subject:

what is "micro beats"?

AgentA · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:35 am Post subject:

seraph · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:40 am Post subject:

elektro80 · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:04 pm Post subject:

mosc · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 8:27 pm Post subject:

Telefon Tel Aviv

Thanks, Zynth. The stuff on their website sounds great. If that is IDM, then I like it. Dance music without continuous repetition; arythmic even.

Great post too, very informative.

Prefuse 73

They'll be in Philadelphia on November 7th. Hmmmm.

AgentA · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 11:28 pm Post subject:

I don't know what micro beats are. Interesting to hear the definitions.

I did find a couple of reviews that use the term.
These reviews have sound files also.
Check out the review for IGNATIUS:
http://www.twilight-zone.it/news/archives/electro_english/electro_g-l_e.htm
also mental tsp is described as using micro-beats:
http://www.kikapu.com/label/releases/kpu035.htm

Pardon my lack of education as I attempt to describe what I expect micro beats to sound like. I'm guessing that micro beats are created with the use of technology or software (that I'm unaware of) and therefore sound unnatural. I expect that they have a quick attack and decay and sometimes are used in instances with a beats per minute that is inhumanly possible. I expect breaks that stutter with them. I expect small percussive sounds. I expect quiet rhythms that machines and appliances make. I expect that I could be totally off the mark. Very Happy

>Anyway.. I have seen this term used. like 20 years ago or so.. referring to subdivided events that has offset outside of the main metric pulse.. but that would be something else.. none of the music I checked out .. using your names and links.. has anything like that.

Hmmm, I wouldn't be surprised to hear something like that on XStream radio. They play artists that wouldn't be a stranger to that kind of thing. I'm just guessing from posts I'd read in microsound.org and elsewhere. Some of the artists get real scientific about it. I guess it's better to say formal or academic?

I hope my not knowing what I'm talking about isn't a bother here.
I'm hoping I can learn something.

Static Strobe Emitter · Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:36 am Post subject: Hmmms....

Ofcoz I couldn't hold my butterfingers away.
From the fact I gather from ur posts here i tried to
make a Microbeat-IDM Drumbeat......

Am I even close to what I think it should sound like?!!

http://staticstrobe-emitter.ath.cx/microidmtest.mp3

Atleast I tried Very Happy

D

elektro80 · Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:44 am Post subject:

Will check that one out right now!

When it comes to weird stuff that sounds almost normal ... I have a sketchy recording of a song using a few weird tricks in the rythm.. be warned.. this is an oldie

http://elektro80.trash.no/loopz/We_Can_Build_You.mp3

The organ/keyboards parts that go dippity dip here and there are what might pass a microbeats in the old sense of the term.. but then.. that is used as a method when writing the parts. The sheet music looks pretty bad.. but it sounds almost normal

Static Strobe Emitter

First of all, Elektro 80. That piece of music I just downloaded from
your site was ....well.......:DDDD well...I loved it.....

I dont know if its finished or not, but I will for sure use
it as an inspiration source when I use photoshop Smile

I dont know what u "really" meen with the track,
but I get instant flashes of a futurecity with flashing lights,
cool bars,and strange vehicles. atleast thats what
I get from track Wink

its a really cool view, I wished I lived there.