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Wren patch Wavplayer
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Airlock



Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Posts: 269
Location: Calabash, NC USA
Audio files: 49

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:29 am    Post subject: Wren patch Wavplayer Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, Wren is so cool I can't stop playing with it. This is my fav patch so far, I don't really understand exactly what is going on with it but it sounds great, even tho it is simple.


Wavplayer.png
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Wavplayer.png



Forth wavplay.wren
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Audacity rock cut.wav
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Last edited by Airlock on Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cool

Yeah wave mangling can be nice!

BTW People will not be able to recreate this when you don't post the audio file used as well, external resources are not contained in the patch - but just referenced.

But .. Shocked .. do things really look as bad on your screen as on the image you posted?

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Airlock



Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Posts: 269
Location: Calabash, NC USA
Audio files: 49

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Added the wav file, a bit large, I can cut t down some...
Uh, the screenshot is what it looks like here, this is on the old i7 930 tower that would not run Wren32 well but runs Wren64 just fine. Video card is a HD5700 from that era. It may look crap to you, I think the colors are muted. My only real issue is things are a bit on the small side, but that is certainly not something I would complain about considering how much I paid for this really cool software synth! Thanks Jan!
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, it sounds quite nice @ 96 kbps Cool

At 48 kbps there is zippering, which can be fixed probably by adding a couple of SlowToFast modules on the delay line modulations.

and hmm .. that looks like crap then .. should look like Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Airlock



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Switched it to 96, yep very good.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Modded and extended it a bit Laughing

You'll have to reselect the waves in the now two wave players.

Should be better runnable @ 48k now.


forth_wavplay_extended.wren
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modded and extende airlock patch

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 Filename:  forth_wavplay_extended.wren
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Airlock



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Audio files: 49

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A bit?! That is awesome, I was going to ask if more than 1 wave player could exist. Whohoo!
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Airlock



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Okay, I've spent some hours with the above and this 3 wavplayer and discovered some glitches, one of which is when I add a module of any kind (even a blank panel) the result seems to be the wav oscillators connected to the rnd LFOs stop working. Saving the patch and restarting the program brings things back to normal. I've also learned that it seems necessary to STOP a patch before doing anything like disconnecting wires, etc. I tried recompiling when these events occur but the only thing that works is saving quitting and restarting. There's more but I am going to decline the opportunity to give you a headache at this time. Laughing


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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Airlock wrote:
[...]one of which is when I add a module of any kind (even a blank panel) the result seems to be the wav oscillators connected to the rnd LFOs stop working. Saving the patch and restarting the program brings things back to normal. I've also learned that it seems necessary to STOP a patch before doing anything like disconnecting wires, etc. I tried recompiling when these events occur but the only thing that works is saving quitting and restarting.


That is odd, nothing like that is happening here, and of course it should not Shocked

But hey. at least the screen dump doesnt look like it was rat-gnawed .. Laughing

Ok .. so only the wave players connected to the random thingies stop, the other (middle) one keeps going, right?

If so, the fm inputs of those wave players might be at a low value (or large negative, rather) ... making it play so slow as it to be inaudible?

(and as those random lfo's are cycling very slowly .. to update a value like once every one and a half hour .. it might hang there for quite a while)

You can test this by clicking a couple of times on the triangle thingie of the random lfo's that do fm control on the wave players ... to make it's output a positive only signal ... which is an up (or downward) pointing triangle in the upper half only. Or right click on it for the menu .. which will show a descriptive text for the modes.

When that helped ... the other issues are?

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Airlock



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It seems to be that the levels get lowered on the wav oscs, not that they stop working.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok .. speed up the random then to see what happens ... and do the trinagle thingie.
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ow .. opps .. I now see you have the distrubution of some random lfo's set to zero . their output value will not change at all then .. after an initial random value was set.

The lamda controls are low too , but those dont do anything unless exp mode is set instead of lin.

Selecting a module and then hitting F1 will give some help on the module .. not that its always accurate or complete ... but it seems ok for the RandSigs module at least.

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Airlock



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Okay, checked those settings and I like it better the way it was. Smile Things got too quiet... I'll play with that. I did some more with the mixer and added a compressor too. And display meters to see if I could track the weirdness. Found myself thinking "is there a stereo crossfader?" and of course there is! And the compressor does side-chaining, another avenue to explore. Talk about rabbit holes.... Very Happy
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Airlock



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah, making the adjustments you mentioned and taking all rnd stuff off of the gverb made things much nicer. I went a little jack happy there.
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Airlock



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
When that helped ... the other issues are?


User error? The other weirdness is gone. I really did have things patched senselessly between the rnd sigs and everything else, once I cleaned that up adding another module didn't have a bad effect on the output. If I am not mistaken, adding a wire or module has the effect of hitting the reset button on a running patch?
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It will be reset yes - and that causes some modules (the random based ones) to obtain some random state .. but others to obtain a well defined state .. like the sequencers.

So a patch may do something different when you add/remove modules/wires.

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Airlock



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Some audio files I am using have some distortion and were causing some confusion, so I put meters before and after compression to watch things, as the RNDSIGS can cause some wildness; the high pass on the Hrast filters is to keep the mud down, tho on this it is set pretty low, on most files I set the highpass to 177 or so.


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Wren latest.png



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Airlock



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The patches do not retain wire colors in all instances if that means anything. Pretty sure it is not due to user error this time.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Some modules are rate smart, meaning that where they are normally run at control rate with blue and green wires they may change to run at audio rate and colors may change then to red and yellow.

This will happen when a rate smart module gets connected to an audio rate output.

Could that be causing it?

There is an isue that when an audio rate signal gets deconnected from a rate smart module not always will the colors revert to control rate colors [edit: and they will continue to run at audio rates then - this is a bug]

Also, I'm not sure what will happen with user selected colors in combination with rate smartness .. in that case the colors may be changed away from the user selected color when a rate switch occurs.

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Airlock



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I tried to color the all the left side audio blue and leave the right side red in the above. No biggie, just reporting things as I find them as you asked.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've just checked, when a user selected wire color happens to be one of the automatic colors rate conversion of a module can change it, will make a note of it.

A workaround would be to use a slightly different color, hmm ... the program could do that itself, it would not be noticeable I guess.

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Airlock wrote:
as you asked.


Yeah please keep 'm coming Laughing

Solved the wire color issues for the next release, there were more things going wrong than just the speed up of rate smart modules, also issues with saving and loading patches and copy/pasting modules.

Also for the next release solved the issue where a speed down would not occur when the audio rate connection was removed from a sped up set of modules. This one had bugged me for long time already, turned out to be related to the wire color issue Shocked

So yeah, reports can improve stuff, thanks!

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I found that the smear caused by playback rate changes on complex wave forms was annoying me, so I generated a couple of clean and simple risset drum samples in Audacity to assess things. I also tried to determine where some "clicks" were coming from. Of course the smear is not so obvious on simple risset drum samples, so problem solved there; I think the clicks might simply be be from the wave being triggered at a non-zero point, as that is something I've run into when I've gotten sloppy with audio edits.

Included here is the patch I am using, it is over the top with 8 wave players with pre compression displays, 4 RNDSIGS and pre and post compression displays on the "master section", but at least I left out the all those EQ's this time. Smile

I've noticed that the top left of the edit screen the individual module types are sometimes grayed-out, they do get the color back in them when I run the cursor over them.

The wire colors do stick when I use yellow instead of blue on the left audio wires.

Question: how does one change "ratio" on the compressor?


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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Airlock wrote:
I've noticed that the top left of the edit screen the individual module types are sometimes grayed-out, they do get the color back in them when I run the cursor over them.


Hmm .. never seen that? ... not sure what you mean .. screen shot?

Quote:
The wire colors do stick when I use yellow instead of blue on the left audio wires.


Yes, any color but straight red or blue will do, but will be fixed in the next release.

Quote:
Question: how does one change "ratio" on the compressor?


The compressor works a bit different than the usual ones.

The ref level sets the target gain at the output, and the gain is the maximum gain it may use to achieve that, this affects the compression ratio. The pre amp also affects the ratio, when it is set high there is less room for amplification (as the output level will be closer to the reference value already), so setting it lower can increase the compression ratio, but it can never be more than the maximum gain.

It needs a bit of fiddling, but then again so does the more usual compressor.

It also will behave better probably in your patch when you set the mode from DC to AC, as you may have a lot of almost DC from the slowly running wave players (FM-ing some with negative modulation values). Also on RMS it will be smoother than when set to peak mode. I'll change the default values for the compressor setings to something a bit more reasonable Rolling Eyes

The the nasty sounds from the wave player, you do not have jumpy position modulation it seems, so it will not be the zero crossings probably (although the start and end levels for the wave better be the same, as the play position will wrap from end to start at times).

What you can try is to add a handful of SlowToFast modules on the WavePlayer's modulation inputs (especially so on pos, speed and fm inputs). But you modulate 'm all over the place so there will be nastyness no matter what.

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Airlock



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
But you modulate 'm all over the place so there will be nastyness no matter what.


Laughing Yeah, I do. I'll try to calm down.

Switching all of the compressors to AC did the trick, clicks are at a minimum.
Thanks Jan! I'll get a screen shot next time things get grayed-out.

EDIT to add screenshot


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Last edited by Airlock on Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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