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Tube VCF on Dutch synth forum
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etaoin



Joined: Jun 30, 2005
Posts: 761
Location: Utrecht, NL

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:45 am    Post subject: Tube VCF on Dutch synth forum Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jeroen Baars designed a nasty Tube VCF which he posted on the Dutch synth forum, here: http://www.synthforum.nl/forums/showthread.php?t=90425

The final design and sound samples are on his website: http://www.electricdog.eu/

I did a PCB design for it that might be interesting to some of you out here:
http://www.casia.org/modular/SF/tubevcf.pdf
http://www.casia.org/modular/SF/tubevcf.jpg
It's quarter eurocard, which seemed like an economical format.

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Last edited by etaoin on Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:43 am; edited 2 times in total
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softfin



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's an interesting project for sure!
Do you know any cheap and reliable sources where to buy those 5672 tubes?
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etaoin



Joined: Jun 30, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I got one from Jeroen, but I don't where he got them from.

Packing date March 1958!

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softfin



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok. I did a quick search and found a couple of sources, although there must be even more.

http://cgi.ebay.de/R%C3%96HRE-TUBE-5672-DL652-DL-652-VALVO-JAN-1958-NOS-NEW_W0QQitemZ320197857180QQcmdZViewItem

http://www.radiotubesupply.com/index.html

Nice to see such old tubes are still available Smile
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synthmonger



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What type of resistors does this use? Sorry I'm a newb when it comes to tubes Laughing
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etaoin



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is a low voltage tube so bog standard resistors.
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks alot for that links
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synthmonger



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That filter sounds sick! I'm definately going to build this one when I get ahold of some tubes.
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zipzap



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Those samples sound perfect! Love that 12v tube stuff. I´m triying to figure out how it works. WHat about C2 and C3? should be of same value, i guess? Can someone explein what the 130n-130k at the gate of the Fet are doing?
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zipzap



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If you can´t get a 5672 i´m sure most tubes will work somehow in this circuit. raising the voltage to 30v (or +-15) might help if a tube sounds like it´s broken.
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j.baars



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi everyone,
Its so nice you like my filter design.
if you can't get any tube's , I still have some.
I am working on a design similar to this one,but with an other tube which is more common.
so, soon there will be lots more of synth design.(tubes and semiconductor)
I opened up my 70s design books to publish.
just keep an eye on,
www.synthforum.nl
www.electricdog.eu
www.bfxweb.nl
www.bfxmusic.com
bye,
jeroen baars
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

welcome Jeroen.

nog geen tijd gehad om te luisteren helaas, morgen !!

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
morgen !!


that's a pretty disturbing filter - I love some of the sounds it makes Very Happy

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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Luka



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

zipzap wrote:
If you can´t get a 5672 i´m sure most tubes will work somehow in this circuit. raising the voltage to 30v (or +-15) might help if a tube sounds like it´s broken.



i have a bunch of the 1j24b tubes from the cgs timbral gate module, does anyone know if they could be substituted, ?

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andrewF



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Luka wrote:
zipzap wrote:
If you can´t get a 5672 i´m sure most tubes will work somehow in this circuit. raising the voltage to 30v (or +-15) might help if a tube sounds like it´s broken.



i have a bunch of the 1j24b tubes from the cgs timbral gate module, does anyone know if they could be substituted, ?


should be fine, maybe a few resistor changes needed.
There is a good list of sub-mini tubes here -
http://pw2.netcom.com/~wa2ise/radios/penciltubes.html
Look for pentode f: 1.25vDC, 0.05a . Any of those should work with possibly some minor tweaks (and will work in the CGS tube VCA).
Some will be better than others.

You want pentodes preferably with 1.25v heaters.
Most regular tubes need 6.3V or 12.6V on the heater at 300mA or more, there goes half of your power supply.
Usually 1.25V sub-mini tubes only need 50mA or so.

Last edited by andrewF on Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Luka



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cheers andrew
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andrewF



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Let us know how you go!
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Luka



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

no problem,
it wont be anytime soon but ill definitely give it a shot

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zipzap



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Whatever i say, these are only my observations. This is rather experiance than reall knowlege. Please correct me...
i have been experimenting with the 12sh1p. It needs 12V, but only very little current. Although it´s designed for anode voltages around 250V it works good with 30V, giving a gain of about 5-10. Whenever triyng a new tube it is of course important that the heating is correct. Another thing is that the tube won´t like beeing overpowered, but that is hardly gonna happen in designs like this. So just install the tube, make sure the heating is correct, the other connections are made depending on direct or nondirect heating, pentode, triode, etc, and start tweaking the anode and kathode resistors. In Class A designs like this one you want to set those resistors so that with 0V input the output is around half the supply voltage, otherwise headroom will be limited.
For low power, low voltage stuff 10k-100k is a good range for the anode resistor.

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etaoin



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've updated my PCB design (links in the first post). Connected an unconnected ground plane, fixed a cap value and changed some hole sizes and the FET footprint.

Sound sample:
http://www.casia.org/modular/SF/tubevcf.mp3

Pic:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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Last edited by etaoin on Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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etaoin



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As the VCA is close in design to the VCF, I modified the PCB to make a VCA one This will take both versions (just replace the transistor by a jumper and leave off the 4k7). Check the schematics to see which component values belong to the version you want.

http://www.casia.org/modular/SF/tubevca.jpg

http://www.casia.org/modular/SF/tubevca.pdf

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janvanvolt



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Will have my pcb ready next week; i have designed a lovely frontpanel for dotcom:


meansuckervcf-panel.gif
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Mean Sucker VCF DOTCOM Frontpanel
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meansuckervcf-panel.gif



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Fernando



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This filter sounds great, thank you!

I also have some 1J24B and 1AG5 tubes , so it would be good to know how to adapt the circuit for them.

niiice sound!

EDIT: it seems that the direct equivalent is the DL69.
Anyhow the 5672 is quite easy to find for $3-$6, plus shipping, of course (some people ask up to $20 only for the tube, sick!) Other theoretical equivalents can be found for $1-$4...

EDIT II: I know it's obvious, but I just realized this filter's crazy resonance can be VC using an external (tube?) VCA

.

Last edited by Fernando on Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fernando



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

While looking for possible equivalents of the 5672 I looked at the table Andrew pointed.
I looked for heater voltage of 1.25V and 50 mA or less, down to 10mA.
I also looked for same pinout (2E31 pinout).
Then I realized that most of the tubes matching with these specs had a much smaller amplification factor than the 5672.

---> So my question is, for VCFs and VCAs, wich amplifying factor range should be apropiate?
The 5672 has 0.065 W as a reference, but many of them are in the 0.001-0.040 W range...

---> Also, what's the influence of the load (5672 = 20k, others up to 1200k)

.

Last edited by Fernando on Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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ickystay



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

softfin wrote:


http://www.radiotubesupply.com/index.html



Thanks for the link! Good price, good service!

So, do the heaters light up enough to put behind a window or some other show-offy thing?
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