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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
MISSION IMPOSSIBLE: the funky drummer on a G2?
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sheridan



Joined: Jun 05, 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:51 pm    Post subject: MISSION IMPOSSIBLE: the funky drummer on a G2? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello all. I recently created some 'drum machine' patches so that I could mke some drum sounds on my G2 (they can be found in the Drum section of the Patch download pages if anyone is interested). Anyway, I was using these sounds in a new tune the other day and I was really quite pleased with the snare in particular, especially after I had patched in some pitch and amplitude modulation. This gave me a (terrible) idea... to try and do the impossible - recreate James Brown's 'Funky drummer' on my G2!! Twisted Evil
Of course, I had several problems and the attached patch is only sounds good BEFORE you hear the original!!! First, the timing of the clock obviously isn't going to match that of the drummer, but on the snare at least, I was able to add delays to individual hits where necessary - note that they are all just about in same place as the original break now. It took ages before I realised that there was 1 slightly open hi hat sound in the break, but it made a big difference when I implemented it into the patch. Also, there is a 'hollowness' in some of the bass region of the bass drum that I found particularly hard to reproduce.

I thought I'd share it with you... I would really love to see if any of you experts could get this patch any closer to the original sound. How is that for a challenge? Or maybe more of a mission impossible?

There is an mp3 of a few bars of the original Funky drummer also attached, but please.. give me a break and listen to the patch FIRST!! Very Happy

For those few who are interested in taking up this challenge, here are a few points to note: The bass drum is resonant at 125 Hz with it's fundamental frequency at around 62 Hz. The snare drum's fundamental is at 250 Hz and it is resonant at 425 Hz and there is also a pronounced ring at 1.25 kHz, which I tried to recreate using a frequency modulated triangle wave whose harmonics lay in this region and whose fundamental I filtered out.

I'm not really expecting anyone to have a go (I know how difficult/impossible it is), but I am really interested to see how close a G2 can get. After all, I've only had mine for a few months and I'm still not that sure how to get the sounds that I'm trying to get, but I think I've done pretty well with this 'mission' so far! I found it a rewarding (and sometimes frustrating) experience.

Note that only the variations that are on when loaded are set and the wiring is a mess!

<<EDITED>> New improved versions attached below.


Funky drummer.mp3
 Description:
Funky drummer audio - mp3

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 Filename:  Funky drummer.mp3
 Filesize:  275.75 KB
 Downloaded:  1223 Time(s)


Funky drummer.prf2
 Description:
G2 Funky drummer (version 1)

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 Filename:  Funky drummer.prf2
 Filesize:  13.06 KB
 Downloaded:  1612 Time(s)


Funky drummer v3.prf2
 Description:
most improved version: version 3

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 Filename:  Funky drummer v3.prf2
 Filesize:  14.4 KB
 Downloaded:  1529 Time(s)


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Last edited by sheridan on Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:07 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Afro88



Joined: Jun 20, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Um... wow... I was about to reply here and do the whole "this is a pointless exercise" thing, but I thought I'd download the patch and check for myself. You've done a pretty damn good job! The snare is great! Great to see the timing is implemented too, alot of people ignore that and focus on the sound which wrecks the whole process. I don't have time now, but hopefully sometime today I'll have a crack at fixing the bass drum. Sounds like it needs some subtle overdrive/saturation or something...

Now do the amen break!! Wink
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sheridan



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Max. Just to let you know, I started with a more realistic sounding kick drum, but it evolved to what it is now as that is more like the actual sound of the audio kick... for instance - you can't hear the beater sound really (on original). Trying to recreate a real bass drum is one thing, but I'm trying to recreate the sound of a recording of one!
I look forward to hearing your improvements and hope others take up the challenge too, although judging by the early downloads, it seems most people are just downloading the original break! Oh well, I thought as much. Very Happy

Last edited by sheridan on Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Shocked banana

Regardless of how close it is to the original, I'm VERY impressed by this. This is great work! Sounds like a sampler, not like a synth.

I've never been into drum synthesis much, as I never thought one could achieve these kinds of results. My mistake.

I'll have to study it. study

So, don't expect an patch improvement from me in the near future. Sorry. Wink

Great stuff, sheridan! Hail the Master props
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Afro88



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Seconded.

I tried fixing the bassdrum but didn't get very far Embarassed

It's a very subtle patch, slight changes wreck the feel of it. I'll keep playing around with it, but I can't make any promises. I'd be pretty damn happy with where it's at hey!
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sheridan



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks again guys. I have to admit that I have some secret weapons when it comes to this kind of thing... firstly, I use a Waves frequency analyser set up in Cubase. Secondly, I am able to loop the original break and sync the G2 to play in time (over the top if neccessary). This helps get the timing right. Also, when trying to recreate the individual hits, I sweep an extremely high boost/narrow band eq over the original to find the main frequencies, ie. fundamental or the ringing of the snare. So this gives me the benefit of knowing which frequencies each sound approximately requires. The bit where I 'fall down' is in recreating exactly what I can hear, due to a severe lack of experience (or maybe constraints of the G2 even), although as you say, I seem to have done ok.
Still, I'm sure there must be more able 'modular magicians' out there than me and so I am still hoping to hear this G2 break sounding more like the original... tough challenge, I know - only the bravest need apply!!
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3phase



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sheridan wrote:
Thanks again guys. I have to admit that I have some secret weapons when it comes to this kind of thing... firstly, I use a Waves frequency analyser set up in Cubase. Secondly, I am able to loop the original break and sync the G2 to play in time (over the top if neccessary). This helps get the timing right. Also, when trying to recreate the individual hits, I sweep an extremely high boost/narrow band eq over the original to find the main frequencies, ie. fundamental or the ringing of the snare. So this gives me the benefit of knowing which frequencies each sound approximately requires. The bit where I 'fall down' is in recreating exactly what I can hear, due to a severe lack of experience (or maybe constraints of the G2 even), although as you say, I seem to have done ok.
Still, I'm sure there must be more able 'modular magicians' out there than me and so I am still hoping to hear this G2 break sounding more like the original... tough challenge, I know - only the bravest need apply!!


I havent had the chance yet to listen to your patch but it sounds promissing what i ve read here.
I just wanted to state that the G2 has its own soundcharacter that cant be really overpatched for standard synthsounds so it might be even harder to overcome this when it comes to the simulation of a very complex acoustic recording. It´s´probably not possible to get a 100% match...
Its however an interesting challange to see how close it can be...
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sheridan



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, believe it or not, I have managed to improve this patch a fair bit. The hats are now more realistic, thanks to some carefull filtering and modulated overdrive to make the open sound rasp a little. The kicks also are now much better after I added some reverb and corrected the frequency of one of the oscilators. I then fed some of the hats signal into the kick's reverb and compressed the whole output. The snares have only had a little amplitude modulation changed, but now have a seperate sequencer to control the amount of snares going to the reverb.

It's obviously still not the same as the original (and as 3phase just said, I'm sure that is impossible), but it's a definite improvement over the last patch. Come on you lot!! Someone has to be able to get it closer to the original... and I've given you all a darn-tooting good start!! Very Happy Now for that well deserved break... happy smoker

Oh, one other thing - I wasn't really sure how to implement the timing 'corrections' for the snare... is there a better or cheaper way of doing it? The delay module turned all the connected control cables red (more cycles) and about every other bar, the first snare seems to be played twice (or part of it). Maybe that's because of a mistake I made. Any soloutions anybody?


Funky drummer v2.prf2
 Description:
G2 Funky drummer v2

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 Filename:  Funky drummer v2.prf2
 Filesize:  13.8 KB
 Downloaded:  1501 Time(s)

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ian-s



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sheridan wrote:
I wasn't really sure how to implement the timing 'corrections' for the snare... is there a better or cheaper way of doing it? The delay module turned all the connected control cables red (more cycles) and about every other bar, the first snare seems to be played twice (or part of it). Maybe that's because of a mistake I made. Any soloutions anybody?


First, great patch!

You could use a logic delay for the timing correction, it needs to be in the 3rd mode (delay both rising and falling edge) and the modulation works differently. If you start with say [sub] 0.10m then you need to use negative numbers to selectively push beats back. The scale I think is different so you would have to re-work that carefully tuned timing.
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sheridan



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Ian. Funnily enough, I tried that and it didn't work, but it was probably because of it's different way of working. I'll look into it again.
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sheridan



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've got it a little bit closer still. I reworked the timing of the snare using the logic delay as suggested and then added timing control to the hats too. Now the problem with the 'rogue' extra snare has gone.
Also, I noticed when I filtered all but the bass of the original break, that there is a kind of double hit to the 1st and 3rd kicks - kind of like a short flam. This was easily incorporated and takes the patch just that tiny bit closer to the goal.
Honestly, it's not a whole lot different from v2, but it is a noticable improvement once again... it's quite nice loading the 3 versions in order, hearing the improvement each time. Isn't anyone else going to have a go then? erm, maybe not ...


Funky drummer v3.prf2
 Description:
Funky drummer v3

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 Filename:  Funky drummer v3.prf2
 Filesize:  14.4 KB
 Downloaded:  1479 Time(s)


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Afro88



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, I started trying to improve it, but in the end gave in to temptation and just played around with everything. I can't say it's better, but I thought I should post it here anyway. Just an experiment to see what I could change to get other musical results.

It's a pretty versatile patch, and alot of fun to play around with. It's like stepping inside the break and stretching stuff around, telling the drummer to hit the drum a certain way etc. Awesome!


afro_drummer1.prf2
 Description:
Modification of the funky drummer patch by Sheridan

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 Filename:  afro_drummer1.prf2
 Filesize:  14.94 KB
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sheridan



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice one Max - sounds great.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

These sound great, guys, but I have a question: what do you do with these patches? They sound like one measure of music to me. Why not program up the other 7 variations and so you could play complex patterns by selecting them in sequence? Am I missing something?
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sheridan



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For me personally, this has just been an experiment or test. I only got my G2 a few months ago and never used modular synths before, so I have been learning how to use it through these experiments. Also, I am really interested in seeing how close a G2 can replicate something (difficult). I am desperate to hear the snare closer to the original. I think Afro has taken up your idea though.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK, I see. You are trying to replicate accoustic drums partly as a learning experience. That's cool. I remembe when I started working in modular synthesis I was trying to recreate oboes and french horns.
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Unfed



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

not only acoustic drums, but the fact that it's one of the most famous breakbeats in sampling history. the fact that Sheridan has come so close to duplicating it (on a synth no less) is a feat in itself. now let's see who can pull of the James Brown grunts and the 'ain't it funky now'...

Very Happy

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3phase



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Unfed wrote:
not only acoustic drums, but the fact that it's one of the most famous breakbeats in sampling history. the fact that Sheridan has come so close to duplicating it (on a synth no less) is a feat in itself. now let's see who can pull of the James Brown grunts and the 'ain't it funky now'...

Very Happy


Smile...that would be extremly funny.... synthezised james....

I am really impressed by the quality of the sounds...Best drumsounds i heard on the nord sofar... very cool snare....
I dont think its possible to get it much closer than it allready is...
But maybe i ve some time on the weekend to try...at least to loose the challenge in a sportsman way... Smile
This patch should be in the factory libary in the 1 position to show potential buyers what is possible on the G2....
All the sounds posted lately have a great quality...much better than the factory lib...seems that it needed the year to learn how to get the max out of the G2...
I hope i dont regret that i have invested in a NM1 lately...
I still love some of my old patches ...but when the new generation of G2 patches holds this quality...uhhhhh....
Do you mind if i use your patch in a track?... Would be funny to use the most sampled drumloop in the world and than render it by some parameters to something very electronical... Virtual Sampling...a subdiziplin of virtual modelling Smile
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sheridan



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds like a good idea. Go for it! This was just an experiment for me anyway. It's not my kind of music really... that is, I don't make this kind (breakbeat).
I did try to improve the snare today, but couldn't! The current snare sounds like the audio snares on the 'in between' snares, but the '2' and '4' snares don't sound at all like the actual ones yet. (hope that made sense to you all). I'm still determined to get them better... maybe using the last slot for the 2 and 4 snares?
Maybe, one day.

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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:
All the sounds posted lately have a great quality...much better than the factory lib...


That always seems to be the case with Clavia synths. The NL3 sounded like sh*t to my ears too until I started to make my own patches -now I love it.
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3phase



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tim wrote:
3phase wrote:
All the sounds posted lately have a great quality...much better than the factory lib...


That always seems to be the case with Clavia synths. The NL3 sounded like sh*t to my ears too until I started to make my own patches -now I love it.


This is something that applies to allmost all synths...
Factory libaries are usually done to match a wide taste and done at times where that knowledge about an instrument is still small.
The NM1 factory sounds was usless for me but showed enough potential to buy the machine..same probably applies to the G2 Lib...

A patch like the funkydrummer would create an "aha" moment for the G2... When i would be clavia i would like to have such a patch inside the delivered G2´s... It really shows that this machine has a very high potential... Its your patch Sheridan Smile...
There was some times where i wasnt sure if the investion in a G2 would pay back for me......This times are over, thanks to recent postings of Rob and others...
The Funky Drummer is like the cream of top of the cake that prooves the value of the G2... Very good idea to start such an experiment....and getting it... Even when it might be possible to get closer ( i am not so sure..i allready give FD2 the preference on my machine somehow...its has a bit more robotik charme...but 3 is great aswell). The achived is well a proof enough.

Sven
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