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Variable Gate Length
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nikitralala



Joined: May 07, 2009
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Location: berlin

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:18 am    Post subject: Variable Gate Length
Subject description: Circuit, Schematics for Analog Sequencer with Variable Gate Length
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Dear Community,
May this has been already a topic but i could not find anything.
I wish to have an analoge sequencer with a row of pots for a variable gate length. I built several DIY-sequencers on CMOS-technic, but they all have fixed gate length. Has anyone a schematic of a circuit that does this task. I found some on the net but they did not work out. not shure, if I was the bad one or the schematic.
I am not able to developpe such a circuit by myself as I only start to understand the architekture of a circuit if I see it done.
so any help is most welcome...
*niki
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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's not exactly what you're looking for, but this Pulse Delay might be helpful.
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richardc64



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PHOBoS wrote:
It's not exactly what you're looking for...

but it can be!

If pulse in comes from the sequencer's clk (active hi) then each step will have a duration set by the length pot. Make that voltage controlled by a separate rank of pots and each step can have a different duration.

Do the same for Delay (with yet another row of pots!) and each step can have variable "swing"!

One hang up might be if duration or delay are longer than the time between clk pulses. The caps shown might need to be smaller for faster sequences.


Edit: corrected terminology; syncopation-->swing


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Last edited by richardc64 on Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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piedwagtail



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Plankton , who designed the Jellyfish delay, appears to be on the case with this

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/topic-125790.html



no schematic yet and he doesn't mention a microcontroller.

R
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DUBmatze



Joined: Feb 18, 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: Variable Gate Length
Subject description: Circuit, Schematics for Analog Sequencer with Variable Gate Length
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nikitralala wrote:
Dear Community,
May this has been already a topic but i could not find anything.
I wish to have an analoge sequencer with a row of pots for a variable gate length. I built several DIY-sequencers on CMOS-technic, but they all have fixed gate length. Has anyone a schematic of a circuit that does this task. I found some on the net but they did not work out. not shure, if I was the bad one or the schematic.
I am not able to developpe such a circuit by myself as I only start to understand the architekture of a circuit if I see it done.
so any help is most welcome...
*niki

circuit:
http://www.sequencer.de/synthesizer/download/file.php?id=12663&mode=view



Forum Post: (is german)
http://www.sequencer.de/synthesizer/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=94971&start=25#p1100261
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J3RK



Joined: Jun 05, 2006
Posts: 123
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You could do this with a monostable circuit.
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richardc64



Joined: Jun 01, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

J3RK wrote:
You could do this with a monostable circuit.

That's what Phobos' circuit is. I suggested voltage controlling the duration.

Quote:
circuit:
http://www.sequencer.de/synthesizer/download/file.php?id=12663&mode=view

I fucking hate forums that don't let the unregistered view circuits.

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Last edited by richardc64 on Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

richardc64 wrote:
I fucking hate forums that don't let the unregistered view circuits.


Laughing I clicked it away pretty quickly too.

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DUBmatze



Joined: Feb 18, 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ups sory, i didnt notice that.
its simple circuit. with a 4049/4050 .... and a CR in between to make the gate shorter (but only this way) . think i posted this somwehre here also but cant find at the moment.
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PHOBoS



Joined: Jan 14, 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

richardc64 wrote:
PHOBoS wrote:
It's not exactly what you're looking for...

but it can be!
....

ah, I wasn't even thinking about Voltage Control. though rereading the question that was probably implied.
The transistor thing will most likely work, good idea Very Happy

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elektrouwe



Joined: May 27, 2012
Posts: 132
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hallo Niki,
it's not only a circuit question. What behaviour do you want ?

1)chain of independent one-shots, last one-shot triggers the first
as soon as you touch 1 of the 8 potentiometers, you are off-beat and can't sync/play along such a with other rhythmic instruments. This is perhaps only useful for "free (like in free jazz) noise sessions"

2)chain of independent one-shots, 1st one-shot is triggered (hard-synced) by external measure-clock
this allows "arrythmic" pattern inside the measure, but measure tempo is not affected when you twist your knobs

3) every trigger can be set 0..100% time (analog resolution) of 1 measure
then you can change tempo and sync to external beats while having strange pattern inside the measure.
I have realized this in my TARB (true analog rhythm box) project this way :
a master sawtooth VCO with a 24 to 240 BPM range creates 1 rising slope per measure.
comparators with -inputs connected to this timing sawtooth and +input connected to CV potentiometers
(or other CV sources) generate triggers @ any position inside the measure. TARB uses all posibilities
of a modular CV synth to modulate rhythms.
Maybe that is what you want finally Wink
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J3RK



Joined: Jun 05, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

richardc64 wrote:
That's what Phobos' circuit is. I suggested voltage controlling the duration.
.


Ah, I didn't look closely. I've built a few transistor monostable circuits, and they work pretty well. I haven't tried voltage control over the length though, just manual.
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piedwagtail



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

just saw this...pretty crude...to pulse to release to comparator to rectifier

from here halfway down
http://www.analog-synth.de/synths/trigsequ/trigsequ.htm

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nikitralala



Joined: May 07, 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:49 am    Post subject: Variable Gate Length
Subject description: to "elektrouwe"
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thanks to all of you for these propositions. I will lock at them now, as I finally have some time to do so.

and to elektrouwe, to answer your question.

it is mostly, what you describe under point 3:
I a want to have a sequence in a fixed timegrid/clock.
but I want to have different note length, each step should be able to have its own length. (in a midi-system this is done in a second Smile )
so I need a variable gate length to control the length of the adsr or similar...

I understand your solution and will try it also. So if I want to have it controlled by an extern clock I could use a sawtooth from a LFO generator...
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nikitralala



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:51 am    Post subject: Variable Gate Length
Subject description: variable gate
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piedwagtail wrote:
just saw this...pretty crude...to pulse to release to comparator to rectifier

from here halfway down
http://www.analog-synth.de/synths/trigsequ/trigsequ.htm

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


I had tryed this one prior to asking here in the forum. It did not work with me. but may I made a mistake...
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nikitralala



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:56 am    Post subject: phobosapiens pulse delay Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for all the reply. I took me some time, bevor I could have a look at it. The phobosapiens pulse delay is what I was looking for. It works fine...
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roglok



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

also see ian fritz's delayed pulser:
http://www.electro-music.com/forum/post-249201.html#249201
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cslammy



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey there, I've built this same thing but using Arduino Pro Mini clones.

Using arduino, easy to get control of delay, gate length (controllable via pot or CV) as well as switches to ignore gate-off or not. Pretty low parts count.

https://audiodiwhy.blogspot.com/2019/12/gate-delay-part-iii-works.html


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kaputtpanzer



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:48 am    Post subject: Re: Variable Gate Length
Subject description: variable gate
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nikitralala wrote:
piedwagtail wrote:
just saw this...pretty crude...to pulse to release to comparator to rectifier

from here halfway down
http://www.analog-synth.de/synths/trigsequ/trigsequ.htm

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


I had tryed this one prior to asking here in the forum. It did not work with me. but may I made a mistake...


This is actually quite interesting! Personally I would replace teh 40106 gates with an opamp comparator. With removing the trigger converter part at the input and another pot for the attack time, it should be possible to add a trigger delay option. Nice little gem.
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ryktnk



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello

On my old version of M185 sequencer I see a saw wave oscillator for the
clock, then a variable pulse width ‘chopper’ circuit to change the length
of the pulse for the gate, this can all be achieved with one 4069 chip.
But it doesn’t allow for gates longer than one click pulse.

Check out Rene’s elegant simple VCO design that utilises this technique

https://www.schmitzbits.de/vco4069.html

Remove the expo converter, and buffer. Replace the 2n2 with a 2uF cap
for LFO speed clock.

-ryk
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