electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
go to the radio page Live at electro-music.com radio 1 Please visit the chat
poster
 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Controlling Chaos for evolving patterns
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Nord Modular Editors
Page 1 of 3 [51 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: 1, 2, 3 Next
Author Message
iPassenger



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:28 am    Post subject: Controlling Chaos for evolving patterns
Subject description: How to create semi random evolving sounds/patterns
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all,

Just wondered if we could start a thread on how to make interesting and controlled random patterns/sounds. Following a brief quiz with Jan on the subject yesterday, he advised me to post something up on here n see how u all do it.

I have managed to get my head round quite a lot of the sound synthesis aspects of the Nord but I am struggling with the evolving concepts (such as complex arrangements of logic n sequencers), i find i am having to do the leg work with controllers, rather than getting the nord to do the labour.

A couple of pics below: 1st one is a really basic couple of controlled random modules, the lfo one, is quite cool cos u can get it to make repeatable random seqs rather than usinhg the random pattern module.

second one: the nearest i have got to a self controlled machine.


Simple Controlled Chaos.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  608.98 KB
 Viewed:  64926 Time(s)

Simple Controlled Chaos.jpg



controlling chaos 2.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  793.59 KB
 Viewed:  64911 Time(s)

controlling chaos 2.jpg



_________________
iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
blue hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24075
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 277
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ross, could you post the patches as well ? Would save me some time in copying Very Happy

To me the sequencer approach usually does not work out very well, as it keeps on looping around forever doing the same. It doesn't even matter very much how long the sequences are, after a few loops it will be obvious anyway.

What I sometimes do to get some life in itis to set some of the loop lengths to odd numbers like 11 or 13. Usually the sequencer reset is tied to the clock's sync output and you can play a bit with when things get synced.

Alternatively some post processing could be used, either on the looped control signals or on the audio signals resulting from it.

On the other hand, plain random doesn't do the trick either, there has to be some order to make it attractive.

It's a bit hard to be specific about this as basically I just try stuff till I'm pleased by the results. To illustrate I'll add an example patch that I made based on this thread. I picked this one because it's a relativly simple patch.

This a a bit of a funny way of turning things around, the basic sequence is a random one, but when it would play the same note an alternative selection is used. The funny thing is that altough I would have expected the output to be more random instead a new order seems to be imposed by the switching process itself. A sort of a lucky find.


rnd-lfo-ex-001.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  137.43 KB
 Viewed:  1108 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

rnd-lfo-ex-001.jpg



rnd-lfo-ex-001.pch2
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  rnd-lfo-ex-001.pch2
 Filesize:  2.22 KB
 Downloaded:  2448 Time(s)


_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Last edited by blue hell on Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 18195
Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 211
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I suggest you check out the many patches submitted by megerov, http://electro-music.com/g2patches.php?owner=megerov

Especially look at the Mandelbrot and fractal patches. These have a knack of sounding repetitive but never repeating exactly.

After a lot of study with these, I find it is difficult to understand intuitively, but just use them as pattern generators and forget about understanding them. Laughing

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 18195
Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 211
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's one thing to get these nice sequences, but if the rhythm is ignored, then it just sounds like a note generator spiting out notes on every beat. I'm interested in rhythm generators too.
_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 18195
Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 211
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's a variation of Jan's patch. I added a rhythm trick. I use event sequencers and a random selector. So at any clock tick, there is about a 25% chance that a given event sequence will fire. By selecting a beat on all four selectors, you are going to get 100% notes on that beat. So you can sorta control the probability of each one of the 16 beats.


autorhythm.pch2
 Description:
A simple patch for generation an automatic rhythm of some interest. Based on a melody generator by Blue Hell. The rhythm part is the 4 modules on the lower left.

Download
 Filename:  autorhythm.pch2
 Filesize:  3.02 KB
 Downloaded:  2943 Time(s)


_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 4145
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 371
G2 patch files: 100

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I like to experiment with a couple of pre-made patterns that get randomly selected by a mux. Here is something I knocked together to show the principle (with a static drum line and bass note) - I would probably tweak it some more.

For the melody line there are no pre-made patterns, rather one of 8 different values are selected by the mux (the purple modules) for each note, the selections are random values, the bass line, the bass line offset by 7 half notes, the fourth or sixth latest note (taken from the delay shift register), or the mean value of the last and the seventh last note.

Edit: Noticed that my pattern thingie is a slightly different take on Mosc's rythm generator.

/Stefan


sbt_muxes.pch2
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  sbt_muxes.pch2
 Filesize:  5.85 KB
 Downloaded:  2130 Time(s)


_________________
Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
iPassenger



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great ideas folks but there must be many takes on this, I certainly like the controlling the probability thro multiple sequencer approach.
_________________
iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
iPassenger



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One of my versions of Megerov's chaos works.


My Algo 2.pch2
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  My Algo 2.pch2
 Filesize:  1.85 KB
 Downloaded:  1942 Time(s)


_________________
iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
iPassenger



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

and a poly synth with semi random seqs:


Dirty Poly Seq2.pch2
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  Dirty Poly Seq2.pch2
 Filesize:  7.08 KB
 Downloaded:  1801 Time(s)


_________________
iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 18195
Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 211
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I like that poly synth thingie. Very nice.
_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
blue hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24075
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 277
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

All good patches and all demonstrating their purpose, and all good in their way, but still all those damned sequencers, get rid of 'm Laughing


drummies.pch2
 Description:
no sequencers

Download
 Filename:  drummies.pch2
 Filesize:  2.92 KB
 Downloaded:  2506 Time(s)


_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
iPassenger



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That is awesome Blue.
_________________
iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
blue hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24075
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 277
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Ross, but the point is: get rid of those sequencers, they are boring and they are not needed Laughing ... well it depends on what music you want to make of course, but they are over-used and over-rated IMHO Very Happy

The patch above uses a bunch of LFO's with feedback. In this case, to get something of a steady pace, in it I used sample & holds to sync the outputs to a clock, The amount of feedback used, together with the speed of the LFO's determines an amount of randomness vs staticness. Putting slow random LFO's on that to modulate it gives some variation over time. When you want it to be more messy leave out the synching.

Here is a tribal-like variation, same idea as above. anyway, you can make it as nuts as you like, or tame it instead.


drummies-2.pch2
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  drummies-2.pch2
 Filesize:  3.79 KB
 Downloaded:  2550 Time(s)


_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
blue hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24075
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 277
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, well ... thought that this could be a nice way to sequence maybe, doing some stuff on different time scales.


sequnce-1.pch2
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  sequnce-1.pch2
 Filesize:  2.71 KB
 Downloaded:  2521 Time(s)


_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
iPassenger



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, i do see yr point, it requires a different way of thinking/approach in order to work in this way.

I will try constructing my own, lfo driven rhythm device. If I can suss it out, will post it up.

Cheers

R.

_________________
iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
blue hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24075
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 277
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In the above I might have given the suggestion of saying bad things about other's patches. This was not my intention, I just wanted to stress other possibilities and got carried away in that a bit. I found all contributions here useful and interesting.

Please keep on posting your patches, without other's ideas I'd run around in circles as well.

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
iPassenger



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No worries Blue, I knew what you were getting at.

A quick experiment based on yr principle


Weird Seqs.pch2
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  Weird Seqs.pch2
 Filesize:  3.17 KB
 Downloaded:  1974 Time(s)


_________________
iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 18195
Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 211
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
In the above I might have given the suggestion of saying bad things about other's patches. This was not my intention, I just wanted to stress other possibilities and got carried away in that a bit. I found all contributions here useful and interesting.

Please keep on posting your patches, without other's ideas I'd run around in circles as well.


Don't worry. No bad intention came through. Sequencers have their uses and I agree, they tend to be over used. When it comes to "variations on a theme" techniques, they are very handy.

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 18195
Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 211
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

iPassenger wrote:
No worries Blue, I knew what you were getting at.

A quick experiment based on yr principle


This is excellent! It has a classical music feel to it. Maybe because it sounds like pizzicato strings.

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
blue hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24075
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 277
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Shall listen later today, for now just : http://electro-music.com/forum/post-116460.html - not NM patches but an interesting approach to sequencing.
_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 18195
Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 211
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's something that I've been working on for the last year or so. This is NM specific. I think there is considerable value in making note generators in one slot that control sound generators in other slots. This keeps the process of generation and sound separate.
_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
iPassenger



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
iPassenger wrote:
No worries Blue, I knew what you were getting at.

A quick experiment based on yr principle


This is excellent! It has a classical music feel to it. Maybe because it sounds like pizzicato strings.


Cheers.

Funny you say that, cos it started out with a string osc but I couldn't get it to behave the way I wanted it to.

With regard to keeping the SEQ/CONTROL and SYNTH seperate, I agree. This is a smart approach, It allows for two sets of mutators to be run n this can then result in some seriously bizarre patches.

_________________
iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
iPassenger



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 1067
Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Shall listen later today, for now just : http://electro-music.com/forum/post-116460.html - not NM patches but an interesting approach to sequencing.


I'm not quite ready for this kinda stuff yet, am only just getting my head round the nord.

But it looks cool anyway.

_________________
iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
blue hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24075
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 277
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

iPassenger wrote:
No worries Blue, I knew what you were getting at.

A quick experiment based on yr principle


Ok, thanks.

And I looked into the patch and agree with Howard, excellent. I like variation 1 best.

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
blue hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24075
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 277
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

iPassenger wrote:

But it looks cool anyway.


Wait a sec ... http://electro-music.com/forum/post-90461.html

People didn't like it very much apparently, but it's an interesting sequncer nevertheless.

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Nord Modular Editors
Page 1 of 3 [51 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: 1, 2, 3 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use