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No time to compose... driving me crazy
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dewdrop_world



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:42 pm    Post subject:  No time to compose... driving me crazy Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Don't know if this is appropriate for here or not... probably is, because I bet most of us have to deal with the work vs music dilemma as a matter of routine...

Perhaps surprisingly, my dilemma is not that I hate my job but need the money. No, the problem is that I like my job too much... "too much" because even though it's taking too much time out of my week and it's killing my musical productivity, it's hard to think of leaving because I work with the coolest bunch of people and I actually get a kick out of what I do.

Yes, I realize how lucky I am not to hate my day job, and I'm not really complaining about that. What I am complaining about is the fact that, no matter what I do and how hard I try, I just haven't been able to build up a critical mass of performable material. The next step in my career plan is to get out there and perform, but I can't get started because everything takes SO LONG to write. And it takes so long because Monday through Friday, I'm lucky if I get one hour in the morning to work on music. At night I'm too tired... oh yes, that's the other problem. I don't have time to be quiet and let inspiration come properly. So other musical ideas themselves are suffering too.

I just don't know what to do. Ultimately I want to make at least some of my income from musical activity, whether commissions, teaching, whatever. But you can't get into teaching without publications, etc. etc.

I don't want to quit my job rashly... can't afford to just not work until "everything works out," but really, I need some time to jumpstart some performance material and performing opportunities. Just wondering what other people have done to deal with this.

Plus my latest piece hasn't been coming together well, makes me more depressed. But that might change... I was listening to some Morton Feldman yesterday and realized that what I'm doing now has some features in common with his work. So maybe I should stop panicking and listen with open ears.

Urghhh... definitely a frustrating place to be right now. But I'm glad to be facing it... that's the first step to making a change.

Not sure what I expect here... maybe only to vent. Thanks for listening.
James

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Low Note



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just finished going to music school, and I can completely relate.

Finding regular time to devote to composition or exploring synthesis was very difficult. For a time I was trying to devote 30-60 minutes a day to my work, but that was often not enough time to really put myself into a creative workflow.

I then tried to just carve out a large amount of time one or two days a week, but often, if I got even a little side tracked, I would end up not getting much done for my weekly lessons. This was also a bad situation too. I was in between a rock and a hard place, so to speak.

The plan this summer, which failed, was to binge write - spend a few hours a day and absolutely nothing else. Unfortunately I had to pay the rent and find a teaching job, so that didn't work. And with starting a new job teaching young kids starting up in 4 weeks, I have a hard time believing that my time to work on my music will increase.

Its rough. I wish I had answers.
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etherline



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I can empathise with your problem. I was thinking much the same thing at the weekend. Seems like life puts a load of obstacles in the way that never used to be there.

Speaking purely for myself, that seems to be part of growing older. I already accepted that I would never make any great musical impact on the world. The next generation will just have to do without the masterpieces I would have produced if I'd had any real talent! I was at least privileged to be able to spend my youth pursuing the dream. It has to be said that that has been at the cost of any financial security. I'll pay for that decision to my dying day but I don't regret it.

This may seem a little harsh and I don't mean to be too critical of what I realise is probably just an idle thought, but it seems to me that if you mean it then you have two choices.

1. Accept your life and make the best of it. An hour here and there will at least provide you with some pleasure even if it isn't hugely productive.
2. Make some sacrifices for what you believe in (whether that is your music or your work is up to you).

The world is full of people who decided that they would just make sure they had a good career to back them up and try to fit their music around it. None of them deserve any sympathy. The world doesn't actually need you (musically speaking) unless you have a talent so prodigious that nothing can stop it.

If you know you are talented then you have nothing to fear. If you aren't so sure it may take a bit more courage. If you know in your heart that you are just dabbling then you already know the answer.

Whatever decision you make, don't look back.

Good luck!
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Antimon



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For me, learning technicalities and stuff (the equivalent of practicing scales on the piano) can be allocated to a regular time every day, but being creative is something I have to wait out. When it comes (often unexpectedly on a tuesday evening while watching TV after a crazy day at work preceded by a night of insomnia) I have let go of what I'm doing and spend the time it takes with the gear - skipping a couple of hours of sleep if the ideas keep pouring. This is something I've read that a lot of artists do. The tech stuff might require more time than strumming the ol' guitar though.

I remember a good post by Kassen from ages ago about how it's important to get out there, and that the audience will tolerate a lot more than you think. I remember he said to start with a birthday party - I tried that, with moderate success. Still waiting to dare the next step.

/Stefan

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, wait! There was the New Year's Even Jam! We ought to have another one of those! Very Happy

There have been other topics about how deadlines are good for inspiration (or not).

/Stefan

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Antimon wrote:

I remember a good post by Kassen from ages ago about how it's important to get out there, and that the audience will tolerate a lot more than you think. I remember he said to start with a birthday party - I tried that, with moderate success. Still waiting to dare the next step.


Yes, I'm still behind that. You can't demand of yourself that you will go from nothing to playing perfect sets in stadium.

Maybe it relates to James's issue in that I think people are letting thelselves be held back by thinking a audience demands perfection of them (which spoils live performance) but I also think some people sometimes demand unrealistic feats of themselves which spoils simple playing. ...maybe that's unrelated. I'm still happy I played a small role in your development!

James; I recently resolved that some of my projects took way too long to write as well.... And what's worse; halfway into those I stop enjoying them. So; I said I won't do it like that anymore, at least for a year or so. My plan is to write simple things that will be recorded in one afternoon or lost forever. I feel much better now.

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Stanley Pain



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: No time to compose... driving me crazy Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dewdrop_world wrote:
Don't know if this is appropriate for here or not... probably is, because I bet most of us have to deal with the work vs music dilemma as a matter of routine...

Perhaps surprisingly, my dilemma is not that I hate my job but need the money. No, the problem is that I like my job too much... "too much" because even though it's taking too much time out of my week and it's killing my musical productivity, it's hard to think of leaving because I work with the coolest bunch of people and I actually get a kick out of what I do.

Yes, I realize how lucky I am not to hate my day job, and I'm not really complaining about that. What I am complaining about is the fact that, no matter what I do and how hard I try, I just haven't been able to build up a critical mass of performable material. The next step in my career plan is to get out there and perform, but I can't get started because everything takes SO LONG to write. And it takes so long because Monday through Friday, I'm lucky if I get one hour in the morning to work on music. At night I'm too tired... oh yes, that's the other problem. I don't have time to be quiet and let inspiration come properly. So other musical ideas themselves are suffering too.

I just don't know what to do. Ultimately I want to make at least some of my income from musical activity, whether commissions, teaching, whatever. But you can't get into teaching without publications, etc. etc.

I don't want to quit my job rashly... can't afford to just not work until "everything works out," but really, I need some time to jumpstart some performance material and performing opportunities. Just wondering what other people have done to deal with this.

Plus my latest piece hasn't been coming together well, makes me more depressed. But that might change... I was listening to some Morton Feldman yesterday and realized that what I'm doing now has some features in common with his work. So maybe I should stop panicking and listen with open ears.

Urghhh... definitely a frustrating place to be right now. But I'm glad to be facing it... that's the first step to making a change.

Not sure what I expect here... maybe only to vent. Thanks for listening.
James


i don't want to seem presumptuous, but it sounds to me more like you're having writer's block..?

i recognise this angst, going a long time without writing music is the worst thing that can happen to a musician, and it's tempting to speculate as to why this is.

i reckon you take a step back and then take a deep breath. forget about writing music for an indefinite amount of time. in it's own time your brain will decide one night that it doesn't need any sleep and you'll start writing music, turn giddy and forget there was ever a problem. just enjoy the creativity when it happens and avoid the angst when it doesn't, especially if you're fortunate enough to enjoy your day job!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: No time to compose... driving me crazy Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dewdrop_world wrote:
I don't want to quit my job rashly... can't afford to just not work until "everything works out," but really, I need some time to jumpstart some performance material and performing opportunities. Just wondering what other people have done to deal with this.


When I was young and composition was the center of my life I worked part time jobs and temporary full time jobs, lived in a shack, had no healthcare, no this, no that, etc. Eventually I decided that the quality of my work did not justify that lifestyle and I gave up composition. Uhhh... guess that's not much help Rolling Eyes

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dewdrop_world



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the responses. Even the harsher ones... it is indeed reality time.

I went all the way through school studying composition, as far as Ph.D., so I'm definitely more committed than a dabbler. I'm a damn good composer, but even so, I gave up long ago the idea that my music would change the world. Very few people have the opportunity to do that, and those who do almost certainly made musical and career choices that would make them immensely popular, and those are choices that are not congenial to me. Popularity isn't the issue... it's just that I don't believe in those genres enough to commit myself wholeheartedly to them. Life is too short to make sacrifices for kinds of music that I don't really believe in (for myself).

I believe I can make music in specific times and places that can touch the people who are present and have a calming, enlivening and healing effect. That effect may or may not resonate outside the musical event -- that's out of my control, and it isn't up to me to set an agenda for what my music is "supposed" to do. But I feel my life purpose is to create those situations, which is part of the frustration... it feels a bit like the starting gun went off for a marathon, but I'm chained to a tree right next to the starting line. Can't go anywhere.

The choice that I'm facing is between accepting that this is my current situation (and, more difficult, accepting that it may take several years longer than I want it to, to get where I want to do), or recommitting to music as the central focus, making the sacrifices, which is a risk, but perhaps the willingness to take the risk is a measure of commitment.

I see myself in my current job for about the next six months at least -- I have some unique knowledge in my team and I would feel bad about leaving without documenting it for others. So we'll see at that time if I chicken out or not...

That's probably what's toughest right now... the sense that this is the decision point. Will music be the front burner or the back burner? My natural tendency is to opt for security, but there's something in me telling me that's not the right thing to do right now. I'd be lying if I said I weren't scared. Sometimes you have to go forward anyway and let go of old habits of mind and spirit that are holding you back.

I don't mind feeling unstable like this. It's honest. It isn't easy, but it's true, and in it is the opportunity to make a decision with integrity.

James

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't know exactly what & how you compose, but can you augment your routine with portable devices? A yamaha QY-100, or a nintendo based system, or even a palm/pocket pc version? Maybe you can get one of those cool miniature hand-held PCs, that are actually a PC. Then work on your lunch break, or take the bus, or carpool.

Just ideas...
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etherline



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dewdrop_world wrote:

...

I'd be lying if I said I weren't scared. Sometimes you have to go forward anyway and let go of old habits of mind and spirit that are holding you back.
...
James


Sounds like you've made a decision but are not sure if you can carry it through. If you have valued skills in your current job perhaps you could sound your employer out about taking a sabbatical from work to allow you to test the water; say for six months. By that time you would hopefully have made enough progress to commit or back out. Alternatively, being out of the job market doesn't really hurt for a year or two (except financially) as long as you can demonstrate to prospective employers that you had a valid purpose for taking the time out, kept your skills sharp and that you had found out what you wanted to know about yourself.

To put it more simply, you are on the edge of a life-changing decision, but it doesn't need to be a life-time decision.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dewdrop_world wrote:
Thanks for the responses. Even the harsher ones... it is indeed reality time.


I hope my response did not seem harsh. I admit it wasn't exactly uplifting. It was just how my life went--how I dealt or rather failed to deal with the problem. Sad

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dewdrop_world wrote:
I went all the way through school studying composition, as far as Ph.D., so I'm definitely more committed than a dabbler. I'm a damn good composer, but even so, I gave up long ago the idea that my music would change the world. Very few people have the opportunity to do that, and those who do almost certainly made musical and career choices that would make them immensely popular, and those are choices that are not congenial to me. Popularity isn't the issue... it's just that I don't believe in those genres enough to commit myself wholeheartedly to them. Life is too short to make sacrifices for kinds of music that I don't really believe in (for myself).
James

How financially feasible is it to go consulting in the computer music business? You have lots of technical background in addition to a Ph.D. in composition. Maybe you'd wind up scoring movies that you don't even like or something, but what the hell?

I ask this question partly for selfish reasons. Last year I was tossed out on my ass at age 52, after 27.5 years working my way from technician to the top of Bell Labs engineering ladder, by a failed remnant of the company. Almost nobody wants to interview somebody in their 50's, doesn't matter what the experience. I'm sure it'll gets worse. Luckily I have a CTO friend who knows what I can do, so I'm bootstrapping my own consulting business. It keeps me in funds, and motivates me to spend as much leftover time as possible positioning myself to do some consulting on computer sounds and music. Don't know if that business plan will pan out, probably not, but it's going to be interesting trying.

I have one kid about to go for an MFA in creative writing and another about to go to audio production school for a year, maybe to music school or into electronics after that, so I gotta keep pulling in funds while they get to be creative. I'm happy to afford them the opportunity. But after this last year, I can't count on a regular "job" anymore, and as far as I am concerned, screw regular jobs with regular companies from here on out. Sooner or later they'll drop you on the floor and kick you out of their way. Count on it. It doesn't matter how good you are. I got a load of over-50, shitcanned age discrimination punk songs waiting to be written, and believe me, there's a demographic for those tunes.

Spending time becoming an entrepreneur means spending *lots* of time -- you never stop planning your next set of moves -- but if you plan and execute, you may get a shot at doing something creative with it. I know people who run arts-oriented businesses and who find the time to create, burning the candle at both ends and the middle. Passion and patience and a sense of humor. No guarantee of success, but there is some adventure.

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dewdrop_world



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good thoughts, all. I'm still digesting... new energy is percolating in me, which I think is a good sign for the future. The main thing is to go with the flow... let the changes in me happen... put myself out there... and not worry about the result.

Bachus, I didn't think your response was harsh... I've thought about what it would mean for my music not to go where I want it to. At worst, I think the job market for business intelligence (my current field of employ) is not likely to shrink and I seem (to my own surprise) to have some aptitude for it. There are worse things to try and not get it all (such as, not to try at all).

Thanks everyone!
James

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

it's never fun trying to decide whether you should:

compose to eat

or

eat to compose

few of us are lucky enough to do either, even less of us are privileged enough to do the first...

i still feel like i'm too old to be going into this industry...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:10 am    Post subject: Re: No time to compose... driving me crazy Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dewdrop_world wrote:
I was listening to some Morton Feldman yesterday and realized that


who the hell's Morton Feldman?

this is a more important point than you might at first realise. go to your local record shop and make a concerted effort to look through all the CDs/vinyl that's there. there'll be a hell of a lot of stuff there you've never heard.

do you know Marvin Beaver? he's a very successful techno artist, and he earns a lot of money per appearance, and a fair whack from record sales.

what about Michael Galasso, a very well heeled film music composer. he gets paid handsomely.

these are all people you've never heard of, yet they all make a very good living from music. they've found their commercial niche.

their commercial niche is probably something they enjoy doing. if they're VERY lucky, they're doing the passion of their lives, but from experience i doubt it. they're probably doing stuff within their comfort zone that they don't feel is a sell out.

however, they probably sit at home on their time off writing aleatoric music or serialism or whatever it is that really floats their boat.

find your commercial niche, exploit your music because it's probably not your music that's the problem.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:46 am    Post subject: Re: No time to compose... driving me crazy Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stanley Pain wrote:

who the hell's Morton Feldman?


Morton Gould's third cousin? Laughing

Stanley Pain wrote:

find your commercial niche, exploit your music because it's probably not your music that's the problem.


No offence intended but as I feel rather certain that approach will not produce music I want to listen to I hope people don't follow it.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:52 pm    Post subject: Re: No time to compose... driving me crazy Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dewdrop_world wrote:
Perhaps surprisingly, my dilemma is not that I hate my job but need the money. No, the problem is that I like my job too much... "too much" because even though it's taking too much time out of my week and it's killing my musical productivity, it's hard to think of leaving because I work with the coolest bunch of people and I actually get a kick out of what I do.


We all need to develop streams of income, whether from music-related work or not. Music-related work can keep you away from doing the kind of projects that interest you as much as will non-music work. To do "career planning" may be helpful however don't do it before looking at the big picture -- that is, visualize the kinds of things you want to do and the kind of life that will enable you.

dewdrop_world wrote:
...no matter what I do and how hard I try, I just haven't been able to build up a critical mass of performable material. The next step in my career plan is to get out there and perform, but I can't get started because everything takes SO LONG to write. And it takes so long because Monday through Friday, I'm lucky if I get one hour in the morning to work on music. At night I'm too tired... oh yes, that's the other problem. I don't have time to be quiet and let inspiration come properly. So other musical ideas themselves are suffering too.


As a Phd holder, you have no doubt had to do countless assignments, papers, etc. However, the deadlines and objectives were given to you by professors. You must take your own deadlines just as seriously as the ones that others have given you.

dewdrop_world wrote:
I need some time to jumpstart some performance material and performing opportunities. Just wondering what other people have done to deal with this.


Total commitment. I commit to a performance date and then make it happen. If I can use music I've already written, that's a plus. If I must create new music, then I just do it. Music composition is, by far, the most time-consuming part of my preparation. Failure is not an option.

dewdrop_world wrote:
Plus my latest piece hasn't been coming together well, makes me more depressed.


Then write a piece about being depressed. In fact, write something as trite and cliched as you can -- then run with it and see what you can do. Listen to the Second Movement of Mahler's 9th. He starts with a little Landler that, on its own, is well.. a pretty "nothing" piece of music.

Don't try to make some "deep" artistic statement. Have confidence that your talent and creativity will come through. Just do what you know how to do.

dewdrop_world wrote:
Urghhh... definitely a frustrating place to be right now. But I'm glad to be facing it... that's the first step to making a change.


Unhappy people feel entitled to pleasure and spend their lives trying to avoid pain. Happy people face pain and challenges head on. Revel in your frustration and CHOOSE to feel it. To experience life's ups and downs is to experience life in "living color". A choice to experience the high points is a choice to experience the lows.

It is not about change. It is about choice. Choose life in full color.

To face your frustration is to acknowledge your own power.

So, James... get to work. I for one look forward to hearing more great work from you... perhaps I will get to perform some of your music someday (do you write for Theremin? (hint hint!).

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: No time to compose... driving me crazy Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And now for a word from THE DARK SIDE . . .
Joni Mitchell wrote:

Most of my heros are monsters, unfortunately, and they are men. Separating their personalities from their art, Miles Davis and Picasso have always been my major heroes because we have this one thing in common: They were restless.


(Can't find the original reference, but it's duplicated here http://books.google.com/books?id=OO5hQBVPoOAC&pg=PA28&lpg=PA28&dq)

Don't underestimate the power of dissatisfaction as a driving force for plowing deeper into the ground. Be non-linear. Use the Force.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kevin... wow, you and I are right on the same page here.

Busy now, but just wanted to say I really appreciate your post.
James

PS A theremin / SuperCollider duet could be very hot for EM2008...

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Something that stuck with me from reading a Stephen Covey book (First Things First) - where he is talking about the problem of people complaining that they never have enough time to get round to doing the things that really matter to them because there are so many other urgent and important things that take priority. Covey reports that at a lecture on time management the lecturer produced a huge jar and some large rocks - "How many do you think we can get in?" He started filling it and then asks "Is it full?" "Yes" - everyone agreed. Then he produces a bag of gravel and starts shaking it into the jar to fill the spaces between the rocks - "and is it full now?" "Probably not" - "okay" - he then produces some sand and starts to shake that into the jar "Now is it full now?" - "No" - "Good" and he then gets a jug of water and pours that in until the jar overflows - "So what is the message here?"

Someone suggests that there are gaps if you look carefully enough and that if you work really hard at things you'll be amazed at what you can fit in.

"No - that's not the point at all!"

"The point is that if you didn't put the big rocks in first, you would never get any of them in!"

So it comes down to what you really want - what do you want for your epitaph?

Neil
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lemonstar



Joined: Aug 05, 2007
Posts: 7
Location: Cheshire, Enlgand

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That last post isn't meant to be flippant or an attempt at profundity - it's just another (simple) thought to throw into the already thoughtful discussion developing here. I think all the creative people I know deal or suffer with the same problem. One event earlier this year changed my perspective a fair amount - a challenge to write 14 new songs in the 28 days of February (www.fawm.org) - I couldn't get any of my other musician friends to try it. I was surprised at how much new material I wrote and even now I can still say I'm happy with the majority of what I produced...so it's amazing what you can do when you have a constraint to work to and there is nothing to stop me from re-working the material at a late date. Before FAWM I had consistently started many things and built up a large number of unfinished songs and comparatively few finished songs. A knock on effect from FAWM has been that I know, definitely know (because I've proven it to myself) that I can be creative when I need to be and that I can produce good work to a tight deadline. I barely fret over the process now, I look for inspiration in everything I do(see, read, think,..) and I act on it. I also see every new song as a stepping stone to improving my craft as a songwriter. I would probably be prepared to settle for one month a year where I dedicate myself to my music and to tick over for the rest of the year. As it is I am now writing far more regularly and with far less self-pressure or frustration about the work-life-family-creativity balance.

Whether you think it is realistic or not - you also have the option to realign your career/job with your desire to spend more time composing but you'll have to think laterally about what you do for a living, possibly be prepared to re-train or accept a big change in your working life, income, pattern of work, etc.

Neil
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