electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » News... » PC
Mac/PC HD Compatibility Questions
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [19 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
Jason



Joined: Aug 12, 2004
Posts: 466
Location: Los Angeles, CA. USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:40 pm    Post subject: Mac/PC HD Compatibility Questions Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am looking for some kind of chart showing do's & dont's for Mac & PC
Hard Drive formatting.

Example would be NTFS formatted works on Mac ok read/write
(which I dont think is even true, but just an example)

Basically, my main question is there a good universal formatting option for Hard Drives to allow them to be compatible with both Mac and PC platforms in a read/write state?

I have struggled with this for years especially at work, but this would be great information. Any ideas or tips are most welcome.

Thanks,
Jason
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cappy2112



Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2244
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Mac/PC HD Compatibility Questions Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jason wrote:
I am looking for some kind of chart showing do's & dont's for Mac & PC
Hard Drive formatting.

Example would be NTFS formatted works on Mac ok read/write
(which I dont think is even true, but just an example)

Basically, my main question is there a good universal formatting option for Hard Drives to allow them to be compatible with both Mac and PC platforms in a read/write state?

I have struggled with this for years especially at work, but this would be great information. Any ideas or tips are most welcome.

Thanks,
Jason


I know that is an example, but years ago when I was using Linux regularly, there was a way to mount ntfs partitions in read-only mode.
I wouldn't be surprised if there is a way to write them from Linux & its cousins.

Type

man mount

the -t option lets you specify the type of partition
One of those types is ntfs - but it may still be read-only

Just remembered something: I have a hackers boot cd that has all kinds of "tools" on it, all organized into nice menus.

One of those tools let me reset the login password on my xp system, so I guess there are (probably limited) write capabilities for ntfs as well.
It was surprisingly easy (and not surprisingly easy at the same time) too.
Less than 3 minutes (and most of that was booting & searching thru the menus), with no prior knowledge of NT/XP system stuff.

Afterthought; Take a look at Samba. It lets you expose partitions that can be read/written to over the network by Windoze (et al)
machines.

You can also control shares other than partitions, like printers, but I've only used it for hard drive partitions.

Once they are on the network, the guy the other end can access them, and doesn't know (nor does he need to know) what kind of box is hosting the storage.

This isn't exactly what you're looking for but may be somewhat valuable.

_________________
Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21977
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Mac/PC HD Compatibility Questions Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jason wrote:
I am looking for some kind of chart showing do's & dont's for Mac & PC
Hard Drive formatting.

Example would be NTFS formatted works on Mac ok read/write
(which I dont think is even true, but just an example)

Basically, my main question is there a good universal formatting option for Hard Drives to allow them to be compatible with both Mac and PC platforms in a read/write state?

I have struggled with this for years especially at work, but this would be great information. Any ideas or tips are most welcome.

Thanks,
Jason





OS X can read both NTFS and FAT32, but AFAIK of those two filesystems, it can currently only write to FAT32.
However, you can also use filesharing.

_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jason



Joined: Aug 12, 2004
Posts: 466
Location: Los Angeles, CA. USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you elektro80, this is very helpful.
Thank you as well cappy, but I need to know this primarily for removeable storage devices for Apple and MS.
In most cases I need these local and not on the network but very good to know. Cool
J
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cappy2112



Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2244
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jason wrote:
Thank you elektro80, this is very helpful.
Thank you as well cappy, but I need to know this primarily for removeable storage devices for Apple and MS.
In most cases I need these local and not on the network but very good to know. Cool
J


Well, the simplest, not necessarily robust is FAT32. If you use the autmount
option for the mount command, it will likely detect it without problems.

Another potential option is an ISO partition. I'm sure Linux & Mac can write them easily. Windows may not be able to read it natively, but WinRar, WinISO and WinZip can r/w them.

_________________
Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jason



Joined: Aug 12, 2004
Posts: 466
Location: Los Angeles, CA. USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes I'm looking for that 3rd solution that may not exist yet>?
Getting in a time machine to use fat32 is what we have been doing.
I indeed will search online some more, I have done a little, but I thought someone here may have some tips too. This is still very helpful, thanks again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cappy2112



Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2244
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jason wrote:
Yes I'm looking for that 3rd solution that may not exist yet>?
Getting in a time machine to use fat32 is what we have been doing.
I indeed will search online some more, I have done a little, but I thought someone here may have some tips too. This is still very helpful, thanks again.


See if there are forums on Mac.com

_________________
Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kassen
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:10 am    Post subject: Re: Mac/PC HD Compatibility Questions Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cappy2112 wrote:

I know that is an example, but years ago when I was using Linux regularly, there was a way to mount ntfs partitions in read-only mode.
I wouldn't be surprised if there is a way to write them from Linux & its cousins.


I'm fairly sure Ubuntu can read&write NTFS and FAT32 both these days.

For audio work I see no point in using NTFS at all as FAT is faster for throughput so that includes streaming recordings from the HD to your DAW or loading sample libraries, etc.

I once saw a Linux-based data recovery system that could read from *anything* and that was homebrew and years ago so I'm sure there are more proper solutions now.

_________________
Kassen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
v-un-v
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: May 16, 2005
Posts: 8932
Location: Birmingham, England, UK
Audio files: 11
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Jason!

Elektro has beaten me to it- but he's spot on (of course! Very Happy )

Basically it's like this;

1 x HD?

3 x partitions.

1 x HFS+

1 x FAT32

1 x NTFS

Simple.

OS X will read but won't write from NTFS (that's my experience)

Windows XP just doesn't give a shit, and will just see HFS+ as something else to write over (ie it doesn't recognise it at all).

Both with read and write to FAT32- which is useful if you want both OS's to share the same iTunes folder (or Audio etc) on the same drive.

I'm also not totally convinced with disk performance while running both OS's simultaneously. XP really seems to slow the computer down.

I hope that helps as an Nth experience Smile

_________________
ACHTUNG!
ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jason



Joined: Aug 12, 2004
Posts: 466
Location: Los Angeles, CA. USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wow, thanks everyone, I will review this when I have some more time.
So tired now. Laughing didnt get sleep as I started reading a huge thread here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cappy2112



Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2244
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: Mac/PC HD Compatibility Questions Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

[quote="Kassen"]
cappy2112 wrote:

I know that is an example, but years ago when I was using Linux regularly, t
For audio work I see no point in using NTFS at all as FAT is faster for throughput so that includes streaming recordings from the HD to your DAW


FAT? Perhaps you mean FAT32?
Capacity limitations would be the first issue with FAT.

_________________
Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kassen
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: Mac/PC HD Compatibility Questions Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cappy2112 wrote:

FAT? Perhaps you mean FAT32?
Capacity limitations would be the first issue with FAT.


Absolutely, I didn't say FAT32 was perfect or didn't have downsides, but it's faster than NTFS and more compatible. Speed is a issue for music and compatibility is when we are talking about a OS for music so those are very real concerns, I think.

Secretly I also like the option of booting DOS from a floppy and fixing issues if all hell breaks loose but then there are modern DOS's that can read and write NTFS if need be.

Oh, and I think Windows and OSX are a bit primitive if they don't put a bit more effort into mounting eachother's filesystem. MS seems to think that's a sort of political matter. Woe-betide you HPFS (a IBM format) partition is Windows finds out about it....

_________________
Kassen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
cappy2112



Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2244
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: Mac/PC HD Compatibility Questions Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:

Secretly I also like the option of booting DOS from a floppy and


You said the F word. Not a good way to start a new year. Wink

Why not boot DOS from USB? It's lightning fast, and has a lot more room.
We do this in the test lab at work- load up the ramdisk, run the tests from the ramdisk, write logfiles to the USB drive. USB drives on systems with a GOOD bios can boot in just a few seconds.

_________________
Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kassen
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:13 am    Post subject: Re: Mac/PC HD Compatibility Questions Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cappy2112 wrote:

You said the F word. Not a good way to start a new year. Wink


Why not? They are compatible. I can use them with my laptop, may desktop, my atari and two of my three samplers.

The last of the three uses QuickDisks.

*ducks*

*runs*

_________________
Kassen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Jason



Joined: Aug 12, 2004
Posts: 466
Location: Los Angeles, CA. USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I may be wrong here but my preliminary research says
fat32 osX extended format may be the key to what we are needing for our mac/pc compatibility for removable storage devices
(mostly FW/USB drives).

Thanks for your help all!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jason



Joined: Aug 12, 2004
Posts: 466
Location: Los Angeles, CA. USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok I was wrong.
What did work however for our needs is to format the drives on a mac using the ms-dos format option. This way the drives are both readable & writeable on both platforms as 1 partition etc. Under windows the drives show as a normal fat32 system.
Thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3863
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

You can get osx to write to ntfs but its a bit of a pain and pretty slow.

You need to look at NTFS-3G and MacFuse.

http://code.google.com/p/macfuse/

http://www.ntfs-3g.org/

I did get all this working on my MacPro but it caused slow startups and shutdowns and in the end it just wasn't worth it. Of course it all may run a little better now as the version numbers seem to have come on a bit from when I tried it.

Cheers

Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kassen
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BobTheDog wrote:

I did get all this working on my MacPro but it caused slow startups and shutdowns and in the end it just wasn't worth it.


That's odd, shouldn't that just be mounting and un-mounting?

Do you have disc-indexing turned on?

_________________
Kassen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3863
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There were problems with mounting and unmounting.

Mounting sometimes didn't work at all and unmounting would time out, osx wouldn't shutdown until the timeout.

Also write speed was pretty bad at around 5-10MB/Sec.

In the end I gave up and partitioned a drive and used Fat32.

Cheers

Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [19 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » News... » PC
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use