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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
hardware samplers + G2
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rhombus



Joined: Mar 17, 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:40 pm    Post subject: hardware samplers + G2
Subject description: any suggestions?
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I've been browsing around for hardware samplers to pair up with my G2. I have been considering the Korg Kaoss Pad 3, the Roland SP-404, and the Roland SP-555. #1 priority is good polyphony, MIDI sync, and time stretching. #2 priority is live looping capability. If any of you have any other suggestions I'm all ears/eyes.

The Korg KP3 looks great for live looping but as far as I can tell it only has 4 voice polyphony? I know there's some KP3 owners here, hopefully you can help clarify some of its features for me.

The Roland SP-404 and SP-505 has good polyphony, but I'm still unsure about them.

Any input you all have would be greatly appreciated.
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd go for a secondhand E-mu E4 series. Mainly because they have a modulation matrix which is more akin to a modular synth, like the G2. Failing that, if you just want a cheap and cheerful groovestation thingie, get a Boss SP-505. Not only do they sample, but they also have a fairly decent onboard sequencer and a tape echo simulator (although you can also do the latter with a G2 Wink ).
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mother misty



Joined: May 13, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: hardware samplers + G2
Subject description: any suggestions?
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rhombus wrote:
The Korg KP3 looks great for live looping but as far as I can tell it only has 4 voice polyphony? I know there's some KP3 owners here, hopefully you can help clarify some of its features for me.



Hi rhombus!

I've a KP3, and like you've already said, one of the strong points of the KP3 is live recording/looping.
(there all still some sync issue's though, but korg is still developing the
OS and they actually listen to what the users wish! hey clavia! Evil or Very Mad )

I can't really compare them to the roland samplers because i've never worked with them.

Oh... besides a sampler/effect processor, the KP3 is a nice midi-controller aswell!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJMzes0KvSs
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dasz



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

rs7000. sequencer, groovebox, sampler. power galore.
/Dasz

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rhombus



Joined: Mar 17, 2005
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Location: Seattle, WA
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

misty,

It looks like the KP3 has four sample buttons, does this mean it can only play 4 sounds simultaneously? Im hoping my assumption is incorrect. Also, I was reading through the KP3 owners manual and its unclear to me exactly what its MIDI capabilities are. Does it respond to program change messages and what does it do? Can the samples be triggered via MIDI? I was really hoping that the recording features of the KP3 could be triggered with MIDI but it looks like that's not possible. I was thinking it would be nice to use the KP3 as a way of recording the last few measures of a song from my G2 and play that recording back while I change patches on the G2 for the next song, so that way I can transition between songs seamlessly. It looks like I can do that, although it would be a manual process. However, I kinda want the thing to be a capable sampler also, but it seems pretty limited in that respect. The Kaoss pad itself has always intrigued me as a MIDI controller. Nice video.
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mother misty



Joined: May 13, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

rhombus wrote:
misty,
It looks like the KP3 has four sample buttons, does this mean it can only play 4 sounds simultaneously? Im hoping my assumption is incorrect.

No, your assumption is correct.
(you can merge several samples to 1 sample to free some slots, but ofcourse that's less flexible to work with)
rhombus wrote:
Also, I was reading through the KP3 owners manual and its unclear to me exactly what its MIDI capabilities are. Does it respond to program change messages and what does it do? Can the samples be triggered via MIDI?

It receives program change messages and it can be triggered via MIDI.
I even made a KP3 sequencer for the G2.
http://electro-music.com/forum/post-109158.html#109158
rhombus wrote:
I was really hoping that the recording features of the KP3 could be triggered with MIDI but it looks like that's not possible.

Do you mean to automate the time you start recording? I haven't tried that, don't know if that's possible...
rhombus wrote:
I was thinking it would be nice to use the KP3 as a way of recording the last few measures of a song from my G2 and play that recording back while I change patches on the G2 for the next song, so that way I can transition between songs seamlessly. It looks like I can do that, although it would be a manual process.

It's actually pretty easy to do it manualy (because the KP3 runs in sync).
I use that trick alot to create layers, once you have several loops the touchpad can act as a 4-channel touchpad-mixer which is really cool!
rhombus wrote:
I kinda want the thing to be a capable sampler also, but it seems pretty limited in that respect.

What exactly do you mean with a capable sampler?
The KP3 is more a creative tool, besides the looping features i use it for a lot of other things.
It's great for sound mangling & re-sampling and once you know your way around it's really quick and easy to transform things way beyond recognition. (and by quick, I mean quick! Smile )
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mother misty



Joined: May 13, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Seems like the patch in the link above isn't the finished version.
Here's the final one.

(It's a dual 16-steps sequencer with re-trigger option for each sample.)


KP3Seq.pch2
 Description:
Kaoss Pad 3 Sequencer

Download
 Filename:  KP3Seq.pch2
 Filesize:  3.83 KB
 Downloaded:  759 Time(s)

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anigbrowl



Joined: Jan 21, 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:38 pm    Post subject: A second vote for... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dasz wrote:
rs7000. sequencer, groovebox, sampler. power galore.
/Dasz


I strongly agree. One of the best hardware sequencers ever (full sequencing, rather than just step), and the most performance-friendly sampler ever, in one box. It is not a deep programmer's machine but a performance and composition instrument with a very nice sound and effects unit built in, and fantastic real-time control, with so many knobs and buttons.

It has a nice clean 'open' sound that goes very well with the Nord (or any VA) in my opinion. Basically it is very strong in all the areas where the typical VAs are a bit weak (drums, 'normal' timbres, polyphony, effects).
You must check it out. They are quite cheap now, but very powerful and flexible.

Oh, the filters on it are also surprisingly good. It will not compete with the NM, but it does the simple things very well indeed. If the NM is Jimi Hendrix, the RS7000 is the excellent band playing behind him.
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anigbrowl



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:00 pm    Post subject: Re: hardware samplers + G2
Subject description: any suggestions?
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rhombus wrote:
I've been browsing around for hardware samplers to pair up with my G2. I have been considering the Korg Kaoss Pad 3, the Roland SP-404, and the Roland SP-555. #1 priority is good polyphony, MIDI sync, and time stretching.


Forgot to say, I used to have some members of this Roland sampling family. They are fun for sure and easy to get started with, but I don't feel like real instruments, more like a toy MPC with FX. I do not remember good time stretching, maybe it has improved.

Quote:
#2 priority is live looping capability. If any of you have any other suggestions I'm all ears/eyes.


Well the Korg is good for that, sure. And if you love to use sampled drum loops etc, the Rolands might be right for you. The Yamaha RS7000 is definitely not designed for this - it's possible to make it happen, but not in a simple way.

On the other hand, it can stand up as an instrument by itself. You won't be embarrassed to hear it while the Nord is resting.
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:03 am    Post subject: Re: A second vote for... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

anigbrowl wrote:


Oh, the filters on it are also surprisingly good. It will not compete with the NM, but it does the simple things very well indeed. If the NM is Jimi Hendrix, the RS7000 is the excellent band playing behind him.


Hi Eddy! (tom "terryfunken" here Wink )

You mean Noel Reading and Mitch Mitchell?

I was put off by the RS7000 because of the certain "Yamaharyness" of the sound. I used to have an A3000 which although was a lot of fun (especially the real-time input), it just didn't have the 'weight' in the sound that the American E-mu range of products had.

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drapdap



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:21 am    Post subject: Re: A second vote for... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey

isn't that Billy Cox and Mitch Mitchell? Razz

just bought an old Akai S1000, as i used to own a variety of samplers, but my favourite one will always be the S900,
that thing can kik walls out. So now i try the bigger brother of his, i takes time to tidy up a sample, but when you're done with that,
you can have random modules from the G2 triggering the hell out of it, it sometimes make me laugh out loud.
It can be really stupid and inspiring.
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:44 am    Post subject: Re: A second vote for... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

drapdap wrote:
hey

isn't that Billy Cox and Mitch Mitchell? Razz


steady on there! Billy Cox came later. He was in "the band of gypsies". incidentally, Noel Redding died in 2003 (RIP). Noel Redding was awesome.

I bought Smash Hits on CD the other day, so I can listen to it in the car- wicked LP

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dasz



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the grid mode and groove grid and sequence play effects make the rs7000 a very flexible and inspirational live sequencer.

I guess you can also look at the electribe samplers.

both of these may not be able to record/loop on the fly (while sequencer is playing).
/Dasz

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Neon Sega



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have G2, RS7000 and KP3, next after G2, RS7k is good
then get KP3. And you''ll be happy like me
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dasz



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

no, you need to get a 2nd g2 before a kp3 !!! Wink
/Dasz

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So, the RS7000 can record samples while playing back it's sequence?
Can you also record to a buffer that has already been assigned notes, while playing?

Some sequencers have this odd obsession about stopping playback for every little operation... often operations I'd say can *only* be meaningfully performed in a larger context.... Kinda like a piano that demands you stop playing if you want to press the sustain pedal.

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fac



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

May I suggest you to check out the Roland MC-808. I'm seriously drooling over it and may buy one if I sold some of my other gear.

It has 8 motorized faders, which makes automation much nicer. Whooping 128 polyphony. Internal sounds (may be useful). Great PC connectivity - even comes with sample editing/chopping software. MPC and 808 style sequencing.

Best thing of all: it costs only $599 (roughly the same as the SP-555) at least at NovaMusik.com

Go to YouTube and search for some MC-808 videos, you'll see what I mean.
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rhombus



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So I had already done some research on the MC-808, and while it looks like a great instrument it didn't look like it could do seamless loop recording and playback, and honestly it's got way too many features for me. $800 isn't exactly too steep but when I look at its features there's about a third to half of that list that I could honestly do with out. Although, for $600 the 808 becomes much more attractive, but I still wonder what it can do with live looping.

It's weird, the SP-555 does almost exactly what I want with one small yet major flaw: when you want to transfer a recorded sample from the live buffer to one of the 16 playback pads, you can't do that without stopping the loop (LAME!).

I honestly don't need hundreds of effects, I plan on routing the sampler's output to my G2 to do effects. Heck, I could honestly do without a tabletop form factor, but who makes a simple 1U rackmount sampler these days really?

When I said capable sampler, what I mean is something that can playback one shot samples as well as timestretch loops. Perhaps I'm not really nailing down what exactly I want from it, and also there seems to be a difference in the market right now between a sampler and a live looper. The two are kinda starting to come together but they're just not there yet. If the Korg KP3 had 16 voice polyphony or maybe even 8 and maybe a little bit more MIDI capabilities then I would honestly just get that and I'd be happy with it.

I was just inspired by the Nord Wave and its ability to use samples as a sound source and I'm trying to find a complementary device to go with the G2 to accomplish this at least on a basic level. I don't really need velocity sensitive multisamples for example. But yes, I would like to take WAV drum loops, drop it into the sampler, correct its beat slicing, and use it in my songs.

The RS7000 looks like it was and probably still is a great machine, but yeah it lacks the ability to work with drum loops and MIDI sync'ed time stretching. Also, it uses SmartMedia cards, which is years outdated at this point. And yeah, I can't even find one on eBay at this point. I'm really looking for something more current. SD or CF memory would be great, a nice Windows app for working with samples I want to load into it, you know, modern conveniences. The G2 has spoiled me in that respect. I don't even necessarily need an awesome sequencer but I'll admit that's one very tempting aspect of the RS7000.

And no dasz, I personally do *not* need another G2, after expanding the one I've got currently it's good enough to do what I want with two exceptions: transitioning smoothly from song to song and playback/mangling of samples.

Nothing really interesting came out of this last NAMM either, which is disappointing.

I may just get a Korg KP3, put up with its limitations, then if they bring out a KP4 sell the old KP3 off. But I'm just personally afraid I won't be 100% happy with it.
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anigbrowl



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: A second vote for... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

[quote="v-un-v"]
anigbrowl wrote:

Hi Eddy! (tom "terryfunken" here Wink )


Hey Tom, long time not talk! I still remember your fun Ice Cream Van single Smile

Quote:

I was put off by the RS7000 because of the certain "Yamaharyness" of the sound. I used to have an A3000 which although was a lot of fun (especially the real-time input), it just didn't have the 'weight' in the sound that the American E-mu range of products had.


If I have a lot of RS7k tracks playing at once with a lot of filters busy, yes, there is a distinct spectral curve to the sound, thus my use of the word 'brassy' - I think of a bright, slightly trumpet-like quality. Sometimes I wish for a little more warmth or fatness in the bass register...but I am still exploring the instrument in the first month.

I too like the weight of the EMU gear and often think about picking up one o their rack samplers or ROMplers as they are very configurable and underpriced nowadays. However, I have found that a lot of Emu sounds in one track can get a bit cluttered, as if every sound were being put through some compression before going to the outputs. That's not meant to be an accurate statement, just a feeling I got. The other (small) minus point is that unless you buy one of their 'command station' dance modules, you spend a lot of time operating menus in proportion to the sound programming. I like the immediate feeling with the Yamaha.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
So, the RS7000 can record samples while playing back it's sequence?


Yes and No. You can go into the sampling menu, choose 'Resample' as your sound source, and then hit play to sample your sequence. You might want to sample come complex textures you made or a standard loop so you could apply some startling effect as a turnaround.

But in terms of just hitting 'sample' while you are already playing, no. It does not work like a realtime performance tool.

Quote:
Can you also record to a buffer that has already been assigned notes, while playing?


No, your sample (if assigned to a track - usually you specify where it will go before sampling rather than after) goes to an empty track, and anything already on that track will be muted during sampling.

Quote:
Some sequencers have this odd obsession about stopping playback for every little operation... often operations I'd say can *only* be meaningfully performed in a larger context.... Kinda like a piano that demands you stop playing if you want to press the sustain pedal.


I'd say it is very performer friendly in this regard, but in Yamaha's eyes sampling is not a 'little operation'. Other things you can't do during playback include things like changing external MIDI track destinations or using the 'job menu' (mainly for high level editing operations like copy, paste and other things that take place over a range).
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

rhombus wrote:
The RS7000 looks like it was and probably still is a great machine, but yeah it lacks the ability to work with drum loops and MIDI sync'ed time stretching.


I'll say 50/50. Definitely no real-time time stretching like Ableton Live. On the other hand it is good at taking a drum loop and chopping it up into 16ths (or whatever), while also creating a MIDI sequence to play it back (ReCycle style). You can then alter this MIDI sequence during playback, and also choose how much 'tail' you want on each sample, so that it does not get cut off when you slow down the BPM.

Again, this is more of a composition than a real-time feature. I do not like the flamming on drum loops from heavy time stretching and am not very loop-based anyway, so it is not such an issue for me. It is more like a ROMpler/sequencer with sampling than a loop-oriented device. I always much preferred MIDI sequencing to audio looping, so I suppose it comes down to your style of music creation/performance.

Quote:
Also, it uses SmartMedia cards, which is years outdated at this point.


Oh, I just have some XD cards with an adapter. And there is SCSI, though I don't really use it. You could get a USB-SCSI adapter as it is SMDI friendly, bu that is a bit of a kludge. Many of the new Roland samplers use CompactFlash, which will be around for a while.

Quote:
Windows app for working with samples I want to load into it, you know, modern conveniences. The G2 has spoiled me in that respect.


It is somewhat outside your budget, but maybe you should investigate the Roland Juno-G (perhaps $700 used)...basically a cut down Fantom, but also a full sampling workstation with 4 track recording built in. I am not into the workstation style, but Roland's sound quality is generally pretty good, the software editor is nice, the synth engine is actually very flexible, and there are nice keys and a good polyphonic arpeggiator on it. Of course the downside is that it's another keyboard taking up space you probably don't need.

Finally, there is always the Akai MPC family, though if you were an 'Akai person' you would probably have got one a long time ago.

The problem is that there is a split between DJ sampling style (KP3 and Roland boxes) which is very fast and easy but not allowing much power, and the studio style which is allowing amazing sound creation and manipulation, but only if you do some planning first. Nothing is perfect Smile
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