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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Windows as a music workstation
When does XP 'run out'?
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
The only thing that Apple make, that IMO is really, really terrible, are their range of Mice. The Apple mouse, like Mr Kipling, is truly crap imo Laughing


I think Razor makes mice for Mac now as well. You can say about MS what you want but MS -for all that's wrong with their programs and politics- does make decent mice.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well what still makes me unhappy is the amount of ignorance about Mac and 1-button mice. I hear so many people say "er- Macs are crap because their mice only have one button. What use is that?" I don't dislike their mice because they only have one button, but more because it's a mouse and it's usually cheap and nasty. Does anyone remember the iMac puck mouse? Hideous! both in appearence and especially use.

No- I like my Logitech trackball- it's one of the first ones too! I just think that it is completely ridiculous that there isn't a bluetooth version Evil or Very Mad Sad

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, agreed. Mice and keyboards are important, you touch them a lot, they should be good quality. In a way they are the interface to your instrument. It's almost sad how many people stick the the very cheap and cheaply made ones that come with computers. No wonder they get RSI.

If that's the only reason some find "Mac's are crap" they should get a Razor with 5 or 7 buttons.... it should be a perfect computer by then!

;¬)

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
It's almost sad how many people stick the the very cheap and cheaply made ones that come with computers. No wonder they get RSI.


That's an interesting point to raise, because according to CIPD (Human Resources), research has found that there is actually no such thing as RSI. Repetitive strain injury if any, is caused by bad ergonomic positioning and/ or set up. The company who Rosie works for will not supply people with laptops any more because, despite notebooks being so popular, laptops or notebooks are so bad for the spine. The mouse is also a bad thing because one has to keep moving between mouse and keyboard (worth pointing out (no pun intended) here that many think the future of laptop technology is with a finger pointing device- like an actual finger!).

This looks like an interesting solution;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7270000/newsid_7278400/7278441.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&asb=1&news=1&bbcws=1%20 #

as does this;

http://www.tobii.com/corporate/products/tobii_t60_t120_eye_trackers.aspx

Oddly enough, I'm doing a report on computer input right now, as we speak! Very Happy

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I almost forgot that we are both trained industrial designers!! Very Happy
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's a bit of a exaggeration because I dropped out but I learned enough about ergonomics and interface design to care about this stuff. I got a Razor with variable resolution, for example, because I found my MS mouse made drawing envelopes a huge chore. I'm extremely picky about my keyboards, not just because of ergonomics but also because I often need to mentally juggle a lot of stuff while editing and the less mental effort the interface takes on that process the better. Once I decided I would use a joystick to play I scouted message boards for fighting and shooting game fans about what the best one was (and F the budget)... which resulted in importing separate buttons from Japan through England because those are that bit more sensitive, a bit less "mushy" and a lot more "hammer proof". :¬)

http://gremlinsolutions.co.uk/products/obsn-30.htm

I still think I may have to build my own joystick in a few years if I keep this up :¬)

Interface matters a great deal to me. We can debate RSI but I'm sure we agree interface can make or ruin your mood for the day and it can make or ruin your musical process.

I think it's also a part of the mouse's influence that modern cheap keyboards have such ghosting issues. Not so good at all, but that's mostly a issue in games.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
v-un-v wrote:
The only thing that Apple make, that IMO is really, really terrible, are their range of Mice. The Apple mouse, like Mr Kipling, is truly crap imo Laughing


I think Razor makes mice for Mac now as well. You can say about MS what you want but MS -for all that's wrong with their programs and politics- does make decent mice.


I've always been fascinated by how good hardware with the Microsoft logo tends to be. They made a big trackball that is my favourite trackball so far (I've tried Logitechs and the expensive Kensington), and the old force-feedback steering wheel that I have isn't half bad. Unfortunately it is a game port version, and there doesn't seem to exist any working USB adapter Crying or Very sad so I can't use it with a new computer.

Re: RSI, a friend switched to using the mouse with his left arm for a while, because he had heard that it is a good thing. After a day or two his arm hurt so bad he had to switch back, it turned out he had gotten a nasty infection in the arm!

My arm, OTOH, stopped aching when I switched to using trackballs.

/Stefan

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Antimon wrote:

My arm, OTOH, stopped aching when I switched to using trackballs.


Me the same. Every time I use a mouse, my neck starts playing up. My wife has also switched to a trackball too.

Funnily though, the trackball I gave her, the batteries would always wimp out after a couple of weeks or so- that was on an old beige G3. Now it's on an Intel Mac, I've only replaced the battery one in 6 months. She uses it most nights. It's odd because the battery is in the mouse. I never had to install any driver- it all seemed to be already in Mac OS X.

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

While we're at it, I have to take some of the stuff I said about the Iphone back. There's one right here (not mine) that's haX0red and it does clearly work on EU networks. Also this model does turn out to have a camera. A nice one as well.

I even like some of the interface ideas, quite different from the standard OSX stuff, maybe due to there being less space for clutter and no need to multi-task. On the other hand I do find some of the animations (opening curtains before we see a slide-show and a james-bond kind of shutter at taking a picture) unbearably corny.

MS mice are unbreakable, I have one here that's 12 or so years old and still working perfectly.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't own many apple products (just an ipod (the d/a is fine for my purposes, thank you very much Wink )).

So I want to know what you think of my theory, from the more experienced.

(Without getting into win/mac argument territory.)

There seems to be more conceptual integrity with some of apples deigns.

By conceptual integrity, I mean that a one group, or one person, decided how the product is going to be. If feels "planned out".

Where as other products and company's, take for instance dell, or the razor phone seem to be decoupled.

By that I mean, it seems like the tasks were delegated to unrelated people, who solved their part, but at the end of the day, it does not seem to be coherent.

Feel free to separate my theory from marketing hype, if I am a victim of that Wink
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think you have a good point but I think it's more about communication then about a single "genius" doing it all. It would be a rare person indeed who could design a Iphone on his own... these things need communication between a large team... partially because the products need to fit eachother as well.

If you are saying this is sorely missing from a lot of industrial design then yeah, I agree. I also agree Apple's stuff looks quite coherent, kinda like Nintendo and unlike many PC manufacturers. Sure. It's still not my taste at all but you are right.

I do think that there is something to be said for the PC-style of doing things as well. If I want to run Ubuntu (which I do, I like it much better then OSX) I can have that and use it with whatever design of PC (or Mac) I'd like. With OSX you are stuck with Apple's design (which can also be good if you like that) so I think you can make a case for some de-coupling of some design choices as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://www.informationweek.com/shared/printableArticle.jhtml?articleID=207001662

Laughing

edit : and also : http://www.infoworld.com/archives/emailPrint.jsp?R=printThis&A=/article/08/04/03/save-110-on-Windows-Vista-SP1_1.html

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