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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Solaris Rotors in G2???
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peterkadar



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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 12:30 am    Post subject: Solaris Rotors in G2??? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey everyone,

I just saw this and thought it would be REALLY cool if someone with more patching experience than myself could build this for the G2.

http://www.johnbowen.com/videos.html

Scroll down to video #3 of 12, entitled Solaris - The Rotors.

I thought it was really cool when they pushed the rotor rate into the audio range.
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Antimon



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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think the basic functionality can be accomplished using an X-mux, as in the attached patch. I've added oscillator 1 in position 5 so that it will fade smoothly back to position 1. If you want to modulate this "G2 rotor" you can put something into the empty input in the module named "rotor pitch". I sensed a number of possible patch routings in the menus he showed - you can probably recreate most of those in the G2. Also check out the control sequencer for cool LFO-driven value changes (of course you can use whatever module instead of an LFO if you want).

It won't sound exactly like the Solaris - the control input to the mux is blue, meaning that (while it does go into audio range) it doesn't have as good a resolution as the red inputs. Also, the Solaris probably has some other DSP solution for the rotor to create that cool sound. An nice trick anyway - I like to use the x-mux in this fashion every now and then.

/Stefan


sbt_rotor.pch2
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  sbt_rotor.pch2
 Filesize:  1.42 KB
 Downloaded:  599 Time(s)


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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

(deleted, see below)
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Last edited by Tim Kleinert on Sun May 03, 2009 11:30 am; edited 4 times in total
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

(deleted too, see below)
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Last edited by Tim Kleinert on Sun May 03, 2009 11:30 am; edited 3 times in total
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I deleted the above posts, as they presented patches that were based on a wrong conceptual assumption. I wrongly assumed that the Solaris Rotor is based on a quadrature oscillator, which it isn't.

So here's the final version that does what the Solaris does, with the same audio quality (the Solaris clocks at 96kHz too). No aliasing. Smile

6.9% cycles, 12.5% memory usage. Nice building block. Smile

Idea By toggling the "HiFreq"-button on the mixer on and off, you can select between audio and subaudio oscillation range.

Edit: different design below.



AudioRteRotor3TK.pch2
 Description:
Final version. Finally :) works like the Solaris rotor.

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 Filename:  AudioRteRotor3TK.pch2
 Filesize:  1.58 KB
 Downloaded:  569 Time(s)


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Last edited by Tim Kleinert on Sun May 03, 2009 12:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Gee, I managed to streamline it even more.

7.5% cycles, 9.4% memory


AudioRteRotor4TK.pch2
 Description:
Even more streamlined implementation of the Solaris Rotor

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 Filename:  AudioRteRotor4TK.pch2
 Filesize:  1.58 KB
 Downloaded:  636 Time(s)


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Antimon



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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow! Shocked Advanced... Er, could you take a little moment to explain how it works? Smile I think that a value exists somewhere that moves like a reverse saw, but well, this is heavy stuff. Also, where do you adjust the xfade amount?

Nice surfing avatar, btw!

/Stefan

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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's an audiorate DIY charge-reset sawtooth core, not unlike an analog oscillator (charging capacitor). Since the overflow isn't taken into account, the oscillations always have the same sample count and thus don't produce foldbacks (aliasing), but sacrifice tuning resolution, which isn't a big deal here.

In the first version, this drives a set of logic and switches that select the inputs, as well as being converted into triangle waves to perform the crossfading between those.

The second version is far simpler, doing away with that switching stuff. The sawtooth is converted into two unipolar triangle waves, 180 degrees apart, which drive fader modules with the inputs connected to them. Mix together, done. Cool

Edit: These audiorate DIY oscillators and counter circuits (which I invented some time back) are central to all my patches. Eg., the elastic audio patches are brim full of them.

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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tim wrote:
Gee, I managed to streamline it even more.

7.5% cycles, 9.4% memory

I"m curious why you have only 1 lead going to the outputs.
Why not make it a stereo patch?

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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cappy2112 wrote:
tim wrote:
Gee, I managed to streamline it even more.

7.5% cycles, 9.4% memory

I"m curious why you have only 1 lead going to the outputs.
Why not make it a stereo patch?

Good idea. Smile

I just mixed them together to get the Solaris functionaliy.

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ehdyn



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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for sharing Tim - excited to see what you've come up with.
Any chance you could post the quadrature patches in another thread?

Thanks again!
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Modularmind



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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just bought the G2 and patches like this really gets me excited to learn a lot about modular synthesis! I have a question though - you say it's streamlined to use 7,5% cycles and 9,4% memory - but when I load it into my G2 (expanded, running OS 1.61) it uses 17,0% cycles and 14,1% memory. Am I missing someting here...?

Anyway, thanks for the patch!

/Mm
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jima



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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Modularmind wrote:
I just bought the G2 and patches like this really gets me excited to learn a lot about modular synthesis! I have a question though - you say it's streamlined to use 7,5% cycles and 9,4% memory - but when I load it into my G2 (expanded, running OS 1.61) it uses 17,0% cycles and 14,1% memory. Am I missing someting here...?

Anyway, thanks for the patch!

/Mm

I have the same percentages, came to the conclusion that it is probably that Tim's is expanded. Don't really understand why your expanded one gives essentially the same figures though as my unexpanded G2...

Not to dis the Solaris but I just love that with a bit of ingenuity and tweaking my low-cost G2 can sound very much the same as several thousand Euro's of most modern synth design. Thanks Tim!

Jim
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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jima wrote:

Not to dis the Solaris but I just love that with a bit of ingenuity and tweaking my low-cost G2 can sound very much the same as several thousand Euro's of most modern synth design. Thanks Tim!

Jim


The person who created the Solaris videos went to a lot of trouble to show off features which don't really let you hear the synth's capabilities. All of those oscillator options- they all sounded the same. One would expect significant differences.

I wonder how close Solaris is to actually shipping. Does anyone here know?

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Last edited by cappy2112 on Wed May 06, 2009 6:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jima wrote:
Don't really understand why your expanded one gives essentially the same figures though as my unexpanded G2...


Nothing strange there ... the percentages are always the same whether expanded or not ... it's just that you can have more voices on an expanded one.

Tim probably gave lower figures for the kernel modules of the patch only, not for the patch as a whole.

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Modularmind



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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pardon my ignorance - what is kernel modules and which would they be in this patch?

About the expansion and polyphony: If I have only one slot activated and have a patch in that slot that use more than 50% cycles I get 8 voices. If I didn't have the expansion I would get 4 voices. Right?

/Mm
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes yr right, presuming all of that patch load is in the poly area.

By keeping the stuff you can live with in mono in the mono area you can save substantially on poly count.

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iPassenger



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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Modularmind wrote:
Pardon my ignorance - what is kernel modules and which would they be in this patch?

/Mm


E.g. the bit of the patch that is doing the "rotor-ing" and not the rest of it, e.g. the osc's and noise gen etc..

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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, the "processing" modules... Thanks for enlightening me!
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Modularmind wrote:
Ok, the "processing" modules... Thanks for enlightening me!


Yup, sorry for not being clear.

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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:

Tim probably gave lower figures for the kernel modules of the patch only, not for the patch as a whole.

Yes. The osc modules are just to demonstrate. The DSP count is for the rotor circuit only.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cappy2112 wrote:
jima wrote:

Not to dis the Solaris but I just love that with a bit of ingenuity and tweaking my low-cost G2 can sound very much the same as several thousand Euro's of most modern synth design. Thanks Tim!

Jim


The person who created the Solaris videos went to a lot of trouble to show off features which don't really let you hear the synth's capabilities. All of those oscillator options- they all sounded the same. One would expect significant differences.

I wonder how close Solaris is to actually shipping. Does anyone here know?


Got a chance to talk with John B. and try the Solaris at NAMM this year. Was hard to concentrate on it actually. There was this astounding synthesizer there built by Skot Wiedmann http://www.motusmavis.com/# in the same booth. On a completely different plane from everything else. Very cool to see Don Buchla and Mike Brown meeting Skot for the first time. Sebastian Jaeger from Harvestman was there as well. The booth was intense-Wish I had a picture.
Seems like the Solaris is finished. John wasn't happy with certain aspects of it, kept saying that the filters were unfinished. Sounded good to me, but it's hard to tell with so much noise around. Can't help but think I would prefer the synth with a larger screen and less of the smaller ones - the parameters just go on and on...
Credit to him for not rushing it out and trying to patch it up later.
He'd probably sell you one if you contacted him. I would be surprised if you didn't receive it by July.
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