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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
switches and logic in the g2
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settle



Joined: Sep 22, 2004
Posts: 35

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:58 pm    Post subject: switches and logic in the g2 Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

could someone explain and or post a simple(simple,simple) patch showing me the most common uses of switches and logic modules in the g2? im reading the manual and having a hard time comprehending the uses. ive looked at a few patches, and tried to figue out whats going on, but to avail. im sorry for such a simple question, but i promise to explain it to the next newbie.
tanx
x
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jksuperstar



Joined: Aug 20, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tough question to answer! The Logic Modules are the "basic building blocks" of all things digital (computers, stop-light controllers, etc). So the uses are endless. All of the other modules can be implemented (in theory) using only the logic modules. I don't think I can describe logic gates in terms of "here's what they are used for", because in these modular systems, they can be used for so many things. However, I don't know if your question also involves "what does a logic gate do"...so in response, you should start by looking at these links:

http://isweb.redwoods.cc.ca.us/INSTRUCT/CalderwoodD/diglogic/

Several people did many workshops on the original Nord Modular, but those techniques are directly applicable to the G2. Specifically, check out the Logic and Sample & Hold tutorials.

http://nm-archives.electro-music.com/010_NordModular/015_Workshops/
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settle



Joined: Sep 22, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

how bout if i make my question more pointed- what are the most common uses of logic and switch modules in a modular synth. thank u for the links. i understand how logic works in theory, nots and nors. i would just like a starting point, like maybe they are used to reset sequencers? or switch between sequencers?
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oXo



Joined: Sep 20, 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It seems that I 'm not the only one, wanting information about logic module
[settle] join me on this forum http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-3532.html

[jksuperstar] can you give us some simple example on using them ? you seem to be a modular "guru", so please, help us ? Wink
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Rob



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

settle wrote:
how bout if i make my question more pointed- what are the most common uses of logic and switch modules in a modular synth. thank u for the links. i understand how logic works in theory, nots and nors. i would just like a starting point, like maybe they are used to reset sequencers? or switch between sequencers?


The idea to keep in mind is that basically signals can represent three different types of 'information';
1) Audio signals
2) Modulation signals
3) Event signals that flag e.g. a note press or a timing pulse

On 1)
Mixers are used to blend different audio signals into the final signal, e.g. a mixer must be used to mix several drum sounds into one drum pattern.

On 2)
Mixers are also used to blend different modulation signals together, e.g. an envelope control signal plus a lfo signal to control the cutoff on a filter.

On 3)
With signals that flag events it is the same as with audio and modulation signals, many times several event signals need to be blended together. But standard audio mixers won't do for this. So there is this other class of mixers named 'logic modules', which are able to blend event signals in a sensible way.
So, logic modules are simply the equivalent for audio mixers, they are used to blend event signals together. A gate module is nothing less but a 'mixer' for signals that can only be ON or OFF. But instead of using the name 'mixing' it is customary to name it 'combining'. E.g. a gate is much like a two input mixer, where the output is not a 'mix' but a certain 'combination' of the two inputs.

The only 'difficult' thing with events is that one does not think in 'levels' but instead in 'moments', the moments when things happen or are supposed to happen. So, you need to visualize a 'timeline' where several events happen and then 'combine' all events so that they are on this one timeline, and all at their proper time. Which is as easy, or as difficult, as giving all instruments' sound levels in a mix the right balance.

The OR function will simply merge two streams of events into one single timeline. E.g. imagine two drumpads and two drummers each playing a pad. But there is only one drumsound/drum module. Now, the OR combination for the triggers (=events) from both pads will create one 'stream of events' that contains the triggers from both drummers. It simply mixes the triggers from the pads into one signal that can play that one drumsound. So, the same idea as a MIDI Merger.
The AND function can exclude certain events from a stream of events, depending on what happens in another stream of events.

The flipflop is basically a Sample&Hold module for event signals, it can sample the ON/OFF signal level on the D input and hold it on the Q output.
The most interesting property of a flipflop (and S&H) is that it can delay the start of an event until the next clock pulse.
Additionally, the module can be reset to the default output value with the reset input, which is not present on a standard S&H. The main use for the flipflop is to 'capture' an event and sync it to a train of timing clock pulses, just like a S&H can 'capture' a momentary signal level in sync with a timing clock.

The use of switches should be obvious, switches are used on virtually all audio equipment. E.g. on a 'living room' audio amplifier you will find a switch that will select e.g. the cd player, the radio tuner, a turntable, the dvd player, or whatever. So, the basic use for switches is simply to make selections through variable routings.

Controllable switches is just one level up, as controlling switches with control signals means that the variable routing doesn't have to be set manually, but can be automated or remote controlled.

Just think of a song/recording as a timeline, where on certain moments certain things happen. If all things that happen are entered in a program like Cubase or Logic, the song file will be a timeline that represents all the musical events. Controllable switches simply allow such programs to change the signal routing in a patch on a certain moment on that timeline. Or you can make your 'noodle' decide when to flip a switch to change the sound.

Regrettably there is no hokuspokus or abracadabra mantra (that me or anyone else can speak) that will instantly makes someone understand fully how to apply all the available techniques oneself. Instead, it takes a lot of experimenting and many times some deep thinking to develop mastery on this subject. Might take months or years. But hey, you are young and life is long! Wink

Just try to keep the aforementioned basic ideas of 'mixing <-> combining <-> routing' in mind when experimenting. Those ideas will keep one on track practically, without luring you into the deep abyss of the academic narcism of synthesis gobbledegook. Twisted Evil
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oXo



Joined: Sep 20, 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Big Thanks Rob Wink , for taking time to give us this huge answer ! Very Happy

Just to verify that I've understand, I will try to give some simple example where logic module can be used (there are mainly theorical since I don't have a Modular)
- we can use some logic module, to swap between differents FX processor regarding the amount of velocity (or note number) played.
- we can use them to invert a LFO waveform at each clock message (I don't know how it can sound Very Happy)

From an IT developer point of view, we can think about it like "If .. then ..else " condition applied on "event signals".

Thanks again.
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is a simplish patch using the gate module, and an alternate version in the FX area using non logic equivalents.

The clock generates both 16th and whole beats. The keyboard gate module GATE output is combined with the 16th trigger in an AND gate. The output will be 16th’s only when a key is pressed. This output is then combined with the whole beats in an OR gate, which simply combines the continuous 1/1 and 1/16 triggers. Note that the keyboard trigger itself wont trigger the sound, it just allows the next 16th through on time.

The second version shows how the multiplier (VCA) and Mixer can do the same job as the AND and OR gate. There are differences in the way levels are treated but in this instance, they work the same. In fact, the two methods use the same MEM% but the non logic module uses slightly less DSP%. Probably because they have to drive the LED’s.


gatesample.pch2
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 Filename:  gatesample.pch2
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settle



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks rob for explaining things in a different way. great, i sort of understand now. but like u said im youngish, oldish (but i want it now!!). Smile
cool tanx
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settle



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:
Here is a simplish patch using the gate module, and an alternate version in the FX area using non logic equivalents.

The clock generates both 16th and whole beats. The keyboard gate module GATE output is combined with the 16th trigger in an AND gate. The output will be 16th’s only when a key is pressed. This output is then combined with the whole beats in an OR gate, which simply combines the continuous 1/1 and 1/16 triggers. Note that the keyboard trigger itself wont trigger the sound, it just allows the next 16th through on time.

The second version shows how the multiplier (VCA) and Mixer can do the same job as the AND and OR gate. There are differences in the way levels are treated but in this instance, they work the same. In fact, the two methods use the same MEM% but the non logic module uses slightly less DSP%. Probably because they have to drive the LED’s.




thanx to u too. cant wait to get n the studio to check this out
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zynthetix



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is a patch how logic modules can be utilized with sequencers, or in this case, counters.

Note : This patching technique is not necessarily practical, since it is very easy to use and chain sequencers in the G2. It is intended to demonstrate how multiple logic modules can be chained together to achieve a single result.



Oscillators named 1 and 3 trigger on beats 1 and 3 of the binary counter, respectively. Hit a note on the keyboard and wait a while to hear it.

If you try hooking the 1 output of the Bin counter to the trigger of an oscillator, it will trigger everytime the #1 output lights up...But what if you want the osc to trigger only on the first beat (or any particular number beat) of the binary counter's 256 beat cycle?

This is where the logic modules come in - The logic modules in the row below Osc 1 are telling the Osc 1 envelope to only trigger when 1 is ON AND 2 is OFF (2 is invertered to acheive the off) AND 4 is OFF AND 8 is OFF AND 16 is OFF, etc. (if the inverters were not involved, the osc would instead trigger when 1 is on AND 2 is on AND 4 is on, AND 8 is on etc.)

Compare this to the 8 counter. It has a seperate output/light for each number in the series of its cycle (There is just a number 3, as opposed to the Bin Counter which uses an active #1 at the same time as an active #2 in order to achieve an active #3). To trigger a note on beat 3 of the 8 counter, simply plug the 3 output of the counter into a trigger. In the binary counter, a logic AND gate would be required to specify that beat 3 occurs when output #1 AND output #2 of the bin counter are active at the same time.


To Oscillators 2 and 4, which trigger on beats 2 and 4 of the 8counter cycle respectively. They are there to demonstrate the ease of using 8counter as opposed to the BinCounter + Logic Gates, but offer far less flexibility.


logicandcounters.pch2
 Description:
Demontration of logic modules used in combination with a Bin Counter and 8 counter to contrast the differences between the two counters and use of multiple logic modules to achieve a single result.

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 Filename:  logicandcounters.pch2
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mosc
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice explanation about that patch, Zynth.

This patch has a little surprise. It lets you know when the binary counter on the left resets. You'll have to wait a while, or crank up the clock. Laughing

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zynthetix



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very Happy
the keyboard reset helps too...I guess I am too impatient for 256 pulses?
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Rob



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is something using logic that I personally find very useful.

The issue is that the clock generator 1/16 pulse is very short, which is actually to make the swing setting possible. The question is how to make a clock of 50% that still has the swing. Using a divider on the 1/96 output doesn't work as that output does not have the swing.

The solution (or one of the possible solutions) is to use two flipflops as a 'one and only one' circuit. This one and only one circuit is able to pass only a single clockpulse from a train of clockpulses. The clock pulse that is passed is the first full clockpulse after the one and only one circuit has received a trigger. The trigger is the 1/16 clockpulse and is fed to both the clk and the D input of the first flipflop. This will set the Q output of the first flipflop to a high level. This high level is passed on to the D input of the second flipflop. Whenever a pulse arrives on the clk of the second flipflop the output of the second flipflop will also go high and this signal must reset the first flipflop, so its output goes low. When a new pulse arrives on the clk input of the second flipflop it will clock the low that is now on the first flipflop output and the second flipflop output will go low. Now, when the the clock on the second flipflop is the 1/96 divided by three (the divider must be in the second option from its dropdown menu) the signal on the output of the second flipflop will be a clock signal that is about 50% (1/96 divided by three) and will be passed on to the output. All that needs to be done now is make sure that the clock on the second flipflop does always start on the 1/16, so the divider must be reset by output of the first flipflop to be in sync with the swing.

I admit that this seems a bit a complex way to do it, but there actually is no simpler way that works reliable. Using only a divider that is clocked by the 1/96 and reset by the 1/16 doesn't work, as the 'swinged' 1/16 comes later as the 1/96 and all will just shift by 1/96. The divider will simply never produce the right swing. So, something must be set on the 1/16 and held high for some time, which indicates a flipflop must be used. Setting this flipflop is simple, but the whole trick is how to reset this flipflop. And that is where the second flipflop and the divider come in, to create this 'one and only one' thingy (which is a well-known circuit in digital electronics).

Swing can now be set between 50% and some 66%, if there is more swing the lengthened clockpulses will start to overlap and the divider must be set to divide by two (giving a 33% pulselength) to avoid missing triggers. The final gates are to make sure there is no glitches in the clock and that the gate goes low when the clock is stopped.

Just copy and paste in your patches and don't worry too much on how it works. Smile


50percentClock.pch2
 Description:
Example of using some logic modules to lengthen the masterclock without destroying the swing. The lengthened clock pulse is a percentage of the beat, so this works for all tempo settings (in contrast to a pulse module that needs to be adjusted for other t

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 Filename:  50percentClock.pch2
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Roland Kuit



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:46 am    Post subject: logic Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yep like jk and Rob they are on/off switches. if you use the gate module and change stuff in this, you will see 00, 01, 10, 00 things. So It's basically some trigger functions but with nice possibilities
To make tis representable for you I made these pch's.

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Roland Kuit



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:48 am    Post subject: logic Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Or stuff


OR.pch2
 Description:
OR stuff

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 Filename:  OR.pch2
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Roland Kuit



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:50 am    Post subject: Logic Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

XOR stuff


XOR.pch2
 Description:
XOR stuff

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 Filename:  XOR.pch2
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Roland Kuit



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:51 am    Post subject: Logic Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

NAND stuff


NAND.pch2
 Description:
NAND stuff

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 Filename:  NAND.pch2
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mosc
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good examples. Logic design is a lot of fun once you spend enough time with it that you become comfortable. I used to be a professional logic designer. There are many little clever tricks that you learn from other people and you add them to your own bag-of-tricks. As I looked over other peoples' designs I noticed that people tend to have their own style of solving problems. You can see that in Nord Modular patches too.

The Nord Modulars would be much weaker without logic modules. I just wish they added a few more, like a binary up/down counter with preset inputs. Then we could make some really beautiful sequencers.

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ian-s



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here are a couple of patches to illustrate another logic/switch group technique.

The first patch implements an idea for producing ever changing noise textures. I wondered what 8 noise oscillators would sound like mixed together with random levels, frequencies and noise widths. The patch may look complicated but it is just the same thing repeated 8 times. I added glide modules to smooth the level and noise width transitions. That was where the DSP ran out, and I still wanted to be able to scale (limit maximum value) and offset (add or subtract a constant value) the pitch and width variations!

The solution came by substituting each group of 8 RndClkA modules, with a single RndClkA, 8 “sample and holds” and an 8Counter.
Each output of the 8counter goes to consecutive S+H modules which are all connected to the same RndClkA output. Both the 8Counter and the RndClkA are sent a short burst of fast clk pulses. The S+H modules sample, then ‘hold on to’ a new unique random value. This effectively gives you an 8 output RndClkA.

This change alone saved over 20% DSP but the good news is that, instead of having to scale and offset each ouput seperatly, I can now apply the scale and offset to the RndClkA output and it will effect all 8 S+H outputs.

With the surplus DSP, I added 8 more glides for the pitch transitions, a parametric EQ, vowel filter, DelayA and a chorus. Now we have the next Alien soundtrack in a single slot.

Sorry if this post is too long winded or obscure, the patch will probably end up in a future noodle, then it becomes very difficult to explain. I know I usually cant make any sense of other peoples noodles.

Phil Oakey wrote:
It’s not simple, it’s not complex, it’s multiplex!



Noise.pch2
 Description:
1st attempt

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 Filename:  Noise.pch2
 Filesize:  4.77 KB
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noise99.9.pch2
 Description:
Final version

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 Filename:  noise99.9.pch2
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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ian, very clever and interesting. I expected that. What I didn't expect was how this sounds - very spooky.

alien alien alien alien alien alien alien alien alien

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