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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Physical Modeling Module
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:32 am    Post subject: Physical Modeling Module Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm doing some research on a physical modeling module.
I try to tie this up to my old PM experiments
( http://www.jhaible.de/jh_ana_phys_mod.html ), making a dedicated module that contains all you need for a analogue physical modelling voice.

BBD, Waveshaper, VCA, Envelope Generator.

For accurate tracking, I try the following idea:

The board contains one of my "Living VCO" cores. The BBD, instead of having the usual HF VCO, is locked to that LVCO with a PLL and variable frequency divider.

I'm using low voltage BBDs (3207) because these are easier to come by in the long run, and their noisyness isn't a problem in a PM module, after all.

Unlike previous BBD projects, that's not a "safe" design where I expect "first time right" - I just make a PCB for myself now, to test the concept, and if I like it, I'll think of something more commercial.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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SubG (deactivated)



Joined: Oct 09, 2009
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

interesting,but note that u realy need a proper (with the right responce/curves) adsr to synthesize acoustic intruments,so far our own tests combining seperate modules we only get best results with an ssm2050 adsr chip,other adsr's we tested (serge extended adsr,MOTM,3310,own design) just don't generate the 'right' shapes.
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SubG wrote:
interesting,but note that u realy need a proper (with the right responce/curves) adsr to synthesize acoustic intruments,so far our own tests combining seperate modules we only get best results with an ssm2050 adsr chip,other adsr's we tested (serge extended adsr,MOTM,3310,own design) just don't generate the 'right' shapes.


Interesting ...
to what extend does does the 2050 differ from the SSM2056 (or a CEM3310), regarding the shapes?

(I made my old experiments with a modified Buchla Low Pass Gate and an EMS-like Trapezoid generator, btw.)

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SubG wrote:
interesting,but note that u realy need a proper (with the right responce/curves) adsr to synthesize acoustic intruments,so far our own tests combining seperate modules we only get best results with an ssm2050 adsr chip,other adsr's we tested (serge extended adsr,MOTM,3310,own design) just don't generate the 'right' shapes.


Oh, and welcome to the forum!
Your very first post, and a very interesing one!
Mind to share a bit about your background?

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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SubG (deactivated)



Joined: Oct 09, 2009
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
SubG wrote:
interesting,but note that u realy need a proper (with the right responce/curves) adsr to synthesize acoustic intruments,so far our own tests combining seperate modules we only get best results with an ssm2050 adsr chip,other adsr's we tested (serge extended adsr,MOTM,3310,own design) just don't generate the 'right' shapes.


Interesting ...
to what extend does does the 2050 differ from the SSM2056 (or a CEM3310), regarding the shapes?

(I made my old experiments with a modified Buchla Low Pass Gate and an EMS-like Trapezoid generator, btw.)

JH.


Hello,did not test with an 2056 ,(the 2056 has better specs btw,but i guess u know that aswell),but the 2050 just suits better compared with all other i named, the transition between attack and decay is slightly different in this chip and a remake of this chip with discrete components give not the same results,sadly,anyway at last u should implement an full adsr into this project if u can.
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SubG wrote:
but the 2050 just suits better compared with all other i named, the transition between attack and decay is slightly different in this chip and a remake of this chip with discrete components give not the same results


Can you explain a bit more about this transition, and how it is different?
I expect a truncatrd exponential slope for attack, with an asymptode voltage higher than the peak voltage, by some factor. Then an exponential decay, with Sustain level as an asymptode.

In what way is the 2050 different? Does it stay at the peak value for some time, before starting the decay part? Is the factor for the attack asymptode different from similar ADSR designs?

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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SubG (deactivated)



Joined: Oct 09, 2009
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i did send u a PM

am gonna try to made and send u some demos asap with 3 different adsr's including the 2050
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