Discussion or Distribution of Information

mosc

On another topic, http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-5879.html ,

blue hell · Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:17 pm Post subject:

I have to agree with Kassen that people do not read messages too well. Occasionally I've been frustrated a bit as well having to point out things more than two times and still not getting the message delivered.

This might partially be the fault of the medium though, as I think that on screen reading is a lot harder than reading from paper.

Apart from that different people will be reading messages in a different way, depending on mood or dope or whatever it will vary over time within one person as well.

It is inevitable I think that sometimes a sick reply will be given to a very serious article, and that could be a serious "no fun" situation for the original poster.

We'll have to live with that ... and sometimes someone will have to step in to try and moderate things a bit, although that can work out very wrong as well.

Jan.

Ponk · Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:50 pm Post subject:

I've always thought that this EM forum is a rare example of internet communication that actually works in quite a sophisticated way. I've seen many other fora in which flamewars take place if not daily then at least weekly. It is very frustrating to try to be a part of a discussion that becomes a mere vehicle for personal insulting. That seldom happens here, I think.

There are times, though, when people don't bother to read what others have written. For my part, I know I don't always have enough interest for all the things that are discussed here, but then I just don't post a reply.

The only flaming (which was of mild kind, IMHO) I've seen here has derived exactly from replying before reading and understanding what others have said. We're all decent people here and it seems that mostly we can see the point the others are trying to make, if not agree with them. So, I guess the development of this community calls only for all of us trying to read the other replies before posting.

This kind of discussion wouldn't come up on most of the fora around. I think this means that we really want to understand each other even though it is sometimes hard. There are a lot of people in the world that won't even try.

Ponk · Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:16 pm Post subject:

Hmmm... I read some of the posts on the topic mentioned above.

Kassen really left? That's a shame. He had so many good points along the way. I hope this isn't permanent.

seraph · Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:35 pm Post subject:

dmosc · Joined: Jun 23, 2003 Posts: 298

grrr, Kassen is right. There's so many things I want to say but I have the writing ability of a 5th grader which makes it quite difficult. HA! I think this site has a wonderful community and a happy go lucky positive atitude. It is inevitable that people argue, some even go out of there way to do it beause they enjoy it so much. What says even more is that most of the times the content is not policed. I'm sorry this site has gotten big enough to run into some of the internet's problems like angry people and fanatical opinions but with the rate it's growing, you had to expect that at some point.

As for Kassen's comments on people not reading everything, I have to agree yet it never bothered me. Compared to other sites with threads that go on for 18 pages running through tangents, back, and constantly being filled with people who post "I couldn't be bothered with reading pages 1-17 but here's how it is" and then 10 more posts flaming the poor guy. Maybe some of it is overly long forum posts... most people won't read a post even as long as this one unless they are highly interrested. Bottom line is at least they showed interest enough to post. You can always just ignore it right?

The worst thing that can happen from this is a negative attitude. It's just part of growing. I've suggested before a "spam" forum where people can post crap if they are so driven to and where you can move crap to if it starts to interfere with the content. I would not be so gung ho to respect the freedom of speech. If they really want to say their point they can rewrite it respectively.

You're doing great electro-music.com! Don't loose sight of the postive.

Tim Kleinert · Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:33 pm Post subject:

I do not see any reason why there has to be a choice between discussion or information-distribution.

Kassen admitted being misunderstood quite often ("please read what is written"). But instead of questioning his own mode of communication, he just dismissed the forum as an effective platform for discussion instead. I don't buy into this.

My first post in that thread was actually quite neutral. I objectively expressed my genuine feeling of being attacked by his exhortations, without being derogatory in any way. But instead of clearing up any misunderstandings (there surely might have been some), moderating or perhaps even apologizing, he simply doubled up. And I took the bait. I regret that.

To conclude: I have never had any troubles having a meaningful discussion on an internet forum -given that the mode and tone of communication is right- and I believe it to be totally suitable for this purpose.

Yes, the tone of communication does matter. That has nothing to do with "the medium is the message". On the contrary. I know we live in a information age that likes to reduce everything to mere information. But information is quantitative, and therefore cannot contain emotions or even love (which are qualitative in nature). So, as long as people have emotions, tone will matter.

The misunderstandings here actually have exactly this source: The mere information on the computer screen cannot always perfectly reflect the qualitative emotion behind the messages. That's why we use emoticons, clarify our emotional stance -and apologize if we see we've upset somebody...

...or we don't, and blame it all on the medium when things go sour.

It's like blaming the tool when the user is at fault.

blue hell · Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:41 pm Post subject:

elektro80 · Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:55 pm Post subject:

mosc · Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:11 pm Post subject:

Disagreement is good, I think. There have been many disagreements I've had with Elektro80 about the "sound" of different processing devices. It took many many exchanges before I actually "got" what he was saying. Sometimes those conversations were painfull for me because I wasn't getting through. Thankfully, everyone was patient through all that and in the end there was a communication breakthrough. The key thing was there was always respect for the other person, and for the other point of view - that is a prerequisite for a breakthrough. .

A good argument can be a beautiful thing. It can teach us new ways of looking at things, and that makes our thinking clearer.

zynthetix · Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:19 pm Post subject:

this might be relevant:
http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html

I don't necessarily agree with the article's title statement of "A Group is Its Own Worst Enemy", more-so the lack of communication through a medium.

seraph · Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:29 pm Post subject:

oXo · Joined: Sep 20, 2004 Posts: 36 Location: Paris

http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html
This is the right one...

seraph · Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:06 am Post subject:

blue hell · Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:20 am Post subject:

Interesting article, I printed it to have a read on the way to Frankfurt, over an hour or so.

Jan.

BTW, hope to be able to talk to Kassen once there, is easier than the board :-)

seraph · Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:36 am Post subject:

mosc · Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:54 am Post subject:

I think it's a great article; very relevant to what is going on here.