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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Ken Stone designs - CGS
real ringmod
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005
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Location: Nambucca Heads, Australia
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Lofi,
You should really be using Germanium diodes, they'll make it sound heaps better. I'd match all 4 if you can.

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Lofi Ninja



Joined: Oct 25, 2008
Posts: 143
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok uncle krunkus, I'll see if I can find some.. But which diodes are the pairs ? because I'm thinking adding rotary switches to different diode pairs.. Oh, the video is up.. CRAZY NOISE ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qOC4x3mtIA Btw. If you haven't checked my channel on utube you should!
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Lofi Ninja



Joined: Oct 25, 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just put the ringmod in a box, and made it so the diodes are replaceable..
Check it.. It's ugly!
http://flickr.com/photos/34781448@N07/sets/72157614681750389/
New video.. Dubstep + Passive Ringmod + Static Noise = ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI0vQw-Cn5M

It's fun!

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otherunicorn



Joined: May 11, 2008
Posts: 136
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have tried schottky, germanium and silicon.

germanium. Between 2.6V and 3.6 V drop depending on the diode. Obviously they need matching.

schottky. Approx 2.5 V drop. Sounds less harsh than germanium.

silicon (1N4148). Quite harsh, and with a higher output volume than germanium, possibly to do with germanium zenering at around 9V, or to do with the extra harmonics.

The brand or type number of the germanium is largely irrelevant.
The old computer I pulled the initial diodes from was built in 1969. It was all discrete transistor/diode/resistor, with a tiny core memory (256 bit). ROMs were 6" x 5" x 10" plug in modules connected by a pin matrix (200 odd pins?) and were full of diodes and in one case even relays. It had been upgraded in 1971 to include a 1k x 8 core memory.

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Sebo



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks otherunicorn for the info!
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Fenris



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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I made one today with 4 germanium diodes. I didn't match them though. So one piece of veroboard later I was set. I have tested it with an MP3 Player, my WSG and my LM386 amp and it works Very Happy I am well pleased and will be trying all sorts with it.

Regards

Fenris
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certain2



Joined: Nov 21, 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:25 pm    Post subject: real ringmod Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've built one of these using a pair of OEP A262A6E transformers. These
are expensive 600ohm audio matching transformers. I used 1n5711
schottky diodes without attempting to match them. The result is excellent.
I'm going to try different diodes, and I'll report back. Meanwhile, here's a
copy of the article that got me into all this.


HughDaviesRingMod.pdf
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  HughDaviesRingMod.pdf
 Filesize:  83.31 KB
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Last edited by certain2 on Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Fenris



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice one Smile . They are pricey though aren't they. But well worth it for the simplicity of integrating it into a system. I would be interested in any comments of the benefits of matching your diodes. Does it really make a difference and how much?

regards

Fenris
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crochambeau



Joined: May 18, 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fenris wrote:
I would be interested in any comments of the benefits of matching your diodes. Does it really make a difference and how much?


I've found the tighter the diodes are matched the more carrier (either source, really) suppression occurs.

When the effect is engaged and modulating signal I can't discern a difference (though I've yet to record balanced vs. unbalanced for A/B); it's when one input is silent that the matching really makes a difference.
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emdot_ambient



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Reviving the thread...anyone have sound examples of various diode configurations? Mouser's 1N34A are like 5.55 times more expensive than their Schottky BAT48 signal diodes. I'm not sure which will sound better for my style of music (think 40s Klaus Schulze or Tangerine Dream...spacy with sound FX but more melodic in nature)...or if it would make a lot of difference.

Wonder how many I'd need to buy in order to find 4 closely matched diodes?
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emdot_ambient



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Trying to drag this one back once again but for a different question...

I have 2 of these boards--had them for quite a while now--and have ordered some NOS germanium diodes from Small Bear...

But I also got 4 transformers from Mouser, using the link on the CGS RRM page:
http://fi.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=42TM018-RCvirtualkey21980000virtualkey42TM018-RC

...I only now looked at them. They've got 3 pins on each side, the PCB has 3 on one side and 2 on the other...

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Pantheon



Joined: Feb 17, 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

looking at the mouser reference you posted, it seems like they will work just fine.

You should be able to place them in anyway around, because the impedance is the same on both sides. For the side that only uses two pins, just leave the central pin from the transformer unattached.

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emdot_ambient



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cool. That's what I was hoping.
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If anyone wants to make a deluxe version with extremely clean sounding and full frequency response transformers (as opposed to the mouser ones), I recommend these Edcors (made in USA):

http://www.edcorusa.com/products/143-wsm600-600.aspx
http://www.edcorusa.com/products/148-wsm10k-10k.aspx

For those in Europe that want them cheap (9 euro) you can get them from the Belgian Edcor distributor:

Tony de Block <tony>

I just bought a bunch of the 10k:10k and 600:600 to build a DI-box:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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emdot_ambient



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Interesting. Thanks for that. Those won't fit the CGS PCB, but I'm sure one could make them work (screwed on the PCB mounting bracket and just wired)...would be really interesting to hear the difference.

It would be great to hear a lot of different transformer/diode combinations with the same input signals. I'm sure the results would change quite a bit and it would be nice to be able to design them to your taste without going through the whole exercise yourself...Lazy? Moi?

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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is the problem with those little 600:600 transformers:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

In other words, you lose a lot low frequencies.

Compare this to the Edcor:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

(audio interface: Roland M-16DX)

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JoeMorris



Joined: Apr 26, 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have one of these cool little boards, what would happen if I literally use as is with the ins and outs as a passive unit? would it just be a matter of makeup gain on the outputs, or is there a more complex solution needed?
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andrewF



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

do you mean the passive version:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.?

yes it works as is, no need for a power supply. Must be the simplest module ever, but it sounds great. there is slight signal loss so turn it up further down the patch
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JoeMorris



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks, thats great. will wire up asap. no sine oscillators at the mo though! maybe I need to build a waveshaper pronto.
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CZ Rider



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sneakthief wrote:
If anyone wants to make a deluxe version with extremely clean sounding and full frequency response transformers (as opposed to the mouser ones), I recommend these Edcors (made in USA):

http://www.edcorusa.com/products/143-wsm600-600.aspx
http://www.edcorusa.com/products/148-wsm10k-10k.aspx


Old thread, but wanted to say thanks for the tip on the Edcor transformers.
Thanks sneakthief!
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Picked up a set and clipped together the circuit after matching the Ge diodes.
Wanted this for my old Moog, and wanted to stay with discrete circuits. Was not sure how this would sound as those old Moogs are temperamental to outside devices. The Moog 901 oscillators are only about 1.2V P-P.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Anyhow, this circuit sounds sweet with the Moog 901's. A small MP3 sample of one 901 ring modulating the other. Usually these sound great with a slight rolling detune. But that ring circuit sounds really different, almost like PWM or something. On the scope the waveforms are dancing. It's alive!
Moog 901's ring modulated MP3 3MEG download
And yeah, those 901's stay in tune over 5 octaves, even beating against each other!
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