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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
pch2csd: call to arms
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BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 4024
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the reply.

Initially the idea is to look at CSound to then look at the stuff you guys are doing.

I will have a look at Cabbage Audio.

I think the HAL device I was trying to use would be CoreAudio.

The issues I am seeing might be High Sierra related, I was unfortunately forced to upgrade last week and the whole thing has been a nightmare!
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gleb812



Joined: Feb 14, 2018
Posts: 21
Location: St.Petersburg

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, in that case there could be some issues.
You may use some alternative - an old PC, or even Android devices..
There are also should be online renderers..

Regarding basic Csound programming you may ask me in PM mode, or just text to forum.
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BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 4024
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

Cabbage Audio is working fine for me, thanks for the tip.

Thanks very much for the offer of help, I have the CSound book (now sitting on desk rather than shelf) and some experience of "similar" things; Supercollider, Kyma, PD, MSP, Reaktor etc so hopefully I should be able to muddle my way through to some extent.

I also have a G2 connected up and am really looking forward to having a look at your stuff...
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gleb812



Joined: Feb 14, 2018
Posts: 21
Location: St.Petersburg

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject: Exp Envelopes Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

More fun content for you!

Here is original NM2 pitch modulation from DrumOsc vs our pch2csd model.
Not the ideal case (as we may see from correlation meter), but anyway inspiring.
PS Unfortunately there is no sound in video, but I am sure you synth-loving people can watch the spectra and just sing it))

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gleb812



Joined: Feb 14, 2018
Posts: 21
Location: St.Petersburg

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:53 am    Post subject: mixers Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi everybody!

I am happy to announce that the MIXER section is completed.
I include a screen of the patch which I used for testing. It includes every module of mixer section. The results (level and phase) are equal comparing to our pch2csd patch. Sure it is quite simple test and probably more complicated things to be done. BUT, at least we have ALL mixers of NM2 completed. Yay!


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vou



Joined: May 13, 2018
Posts: 17
Location: London

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello, just wanted to chip in to say hi & amazing project.

All tho my Csound knowledge isn't so deep, I'd definitely like to run my patches on a computer. I reckon it would be extremely helpful to debug patches or sketch ideas.

Any specific reason for choosing Csound over other environments? I should probably read that paper soon!
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gleb812



Joined: Feb 14, 2018
Posts: 21
Location: St.Petersburg

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi you!

Thanks for checking the tread. Actually, you will need some Csound skills only if you're planning some modifications or want to understand our models.

The benefits of Csound, to name a few, is multiplatformity, long list of existing codes, nice community, and ability to turn your code into VST/VSTi
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Organoid



Joined: Oct 02, 2018
Posts: 7
Location: Greece
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's my first post in this forum and i'd like to thank all the amazing people that gave us so much knowledge for our fav synth all those years!!
This project amazed me and i'm looking very forward for the final release!Smile
I have one question regarding the cpu power.Will it take sources from the computer cpu and if so will it be possible to build more complex patches than G2 's cpu power can handle?(i wish if the switch 1-8 module would use less cpu...)
Thank you and full support!
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gleb812



Joined: Feb 14, 2018
Posts: 21
Location: St.Petersburg

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi, Organoid! You're welcome.
Talking about Csound implementation, if you use offline render you may have thousands of modules. For the online work, I may guess today's computers are rather powerfull, so the possibility of building more complex patches does exist. And since it is Csound, you can insert some built-in Csound modules between patches etc..
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Organoid



Joined: Oct 02, 2018
Posts: 7
Location: Greece
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for quick reply i see!

What's the difference between offline and online render?What i mean does it have to do when i use the program as standalone or in a Daw,or offline when i use only the csound program and online when it 's connected with the g2?
(sorry for to many questions just want to have a holistic view)
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gleb812



Joined: Feb 14, 2018
Posts: 21
Location: St.Petersburg

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Organoid,

Csound can work in offline mode. It means there will be no sound until you render your code to output sound file. This (at some point outdated) feature allows user to have as much complex code as possible.

DAW connection thru the VST is still not implemented, but the process goes on. Anyway, Csound by itself DOES work as VST via Cabbage Audio.

To make sure you understand the project's goal correctly - Csound doesn't connect with G2 in anyway. We simulate it using Csound. We try to replicate any feature of each G2 module as close to original as possible.
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Organoid



Joined: Oct 02, 2018
Posts: 7
Location: Greece
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for explaining,looking forward for the release!
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gleb812



Joined: Feb 14, 2018
Posts: 21
Location: St.Petersburg

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi people!

Long time no see! We are back on track again with the ClkGen model (long time tested) and a whole Logic group completed. Not so much about actually sound design, but anyway one step closer to the final emulation.

Stay tuned! more things to come soon!

And as always - any questions are welcome and any help is appreciated.

Gleb and Eugene


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Rudt



Joined: Oct 06, 2019
Posts: 5
Location: Portland Oregon

PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:08 pm    Post subject: excellent! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great!!
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gleb812



Joined: Feb 14, 2018
Posts: 21
Location: St.Petersburg

PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi people!

It's been a while. I've been to amazing Csound conference in Italy and was involved into number of activities, as all our little reverse engineering community...

So today I am uploading our first results on emulating NM2 random generators. Sure, we cannot build exactly the same thing, BUT we can estimate Probability Density Function over the series of recorded random values and build the same gen. The PDF graph gives distributions for different STEP values of RandomA/RandomB modules (both original and emulated) and they are rather close. The picture with the time series gives comparison between original random sequences (pink) for EDGE 25 (up) / EDGE 100 (bottom) and emulated (blue) correspondingly.

Stay tuned!

G


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time series RandomA
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gleb812



Joined: Feb 14, 2018
Posts: 21
Location: St.Petersburg

PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Not really much to say this time, just wanted to say that MonoKey module is online from now.
On the picture you can see some midi sequence at the top and three outputs of the MonoKey model in High mode - 1) highest scaled midi note value 2) normalized velocity 3) gate signal.

That's it folks.

Everybody is very welcome once again to take part. The whole story is a little tricky, since you have to deal with Csound language, BUT at least feel free to share some interesting original bugs to implement, some reversing ideas and concepts etc. Our pch2csd repository Docs include present status on finished modules. Or anyway it is OK to say hi to us here or request something.

G


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MonoKey model output
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Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 22904
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 240
G2 patch files: 319

PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

gleb812 wrote:
Or anyway it is OK to say hi to us here


hi!

I think it's a cool project (and maybe I can borrow some code from it some day after learning some more CSound Wink )

Oh, and maybe put the project site in each post ... or in your sig .. the project's site is https://github.com/gleb812/pch2csd

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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gleb812



Joined: Feb 14, 2018
Posts: 21
Location: St.Petersburg

PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the response! Done! )
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Visit PCH2CSD site
https://github.com/gleb812/pch2csd
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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 22904
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 240
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I had a quick run trough the project code .. and there is a thing I could not find .. the code seems to be supposed to generate csd files (which I assume to be CSound scores, it's not like I'm very used to CSound, but occasionally I try to understand stuff from it).

What I could not readily find is .. where is the translation made for modules into their CSound equivalent?

Not that I'm fluent or anything in Python either .. but at least I could try to read it :-)

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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gleb812



Joined: Feb 14, 2018
Posts: 21
Location: St.Petersburg

PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oh. Unfortunately I am not a Python guy, I am just audio programmer, so I do reverse engineering. Other guy (Eugene) did all the Python things, which include parser and code generator. I suggest the whole thing is somewhere around csdgen.py file. In case you need more info, I can forward this to Eugene. He loves Python.

The basic idea is like this: to parse the pch2 file to get the patch data, then take the corresponding Csound UDOs from the project repository, then (if such UDOs exist) to place it all in some Csound template file.

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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 22904
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 240
G2 patch files: 319

PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks, that will give me a handle for now :-)

And eventually it'd be ( the results of) the reversed engineering bits that I'd be most interested in.

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Electromagnetic Wave



Joined: Apr 28, 2013
Posts: 272
Location: Kebek
G2 patch files: 38

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm glad to know that this project is still under development. Then also to know that Jan has an eye on the project. With all his experience with the original NM, the G2 and the development of WREN still in progress, even if the platforms are different, the shared experience should have a great value for this project.

@Jan> I guess you've already read this information page?
https://github.com/gleb812/pch2csd/wiki/Making-a-new-module
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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 22904
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 240
G2 patch files: 319

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Electromagnetic Wave wrote:
@Jan> I guess you've already read this information page?
https://github.com/gleb812/pch2csd/wiki/Making-a-new-module


nope .. thanks for the link Cool

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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