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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Ken Stone designs - CGS
The CGS Sub Oscillator...You need it
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Ilanode



Joined: Sep 14, 2007
Posts: 80
Location: Berlin/FRG

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Ken, great to find you here! I'm absolutely convinced that the Modulo is one of the most interesting circuits, however, for some reason I assume I don't get the assembly hints fully. However, just have read them once more carefully and well I might dare it! Smile
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otherunicorn



Joined: May 11, 2008
Posts: 136
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ilanode wrote:
Hi Ken, great to find you here! I'm absolutely convinced that the Modulo is one of the most interesting circuits, however, for some reason I assume I don't get the assembly hints fully. However, just have read them once more carefully and well I might dare it! Smile


I did not use all of the options when I put mine on a panel, and regretted it. It isn't in the synth at the moment because I want to redo it with a better panel. Take that as another hint!

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bridechamber



Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Posts: 64
Location: Saint Paul, MN

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What I did on my original SubOsc is use DPDT switches for every two pots, so you can choose for each pair whether you'll use (for example) A/2 and A/6 or A/16 and A/32 -- that is, whether your application is for control voltages or audio.

On the one I'm working on now, I use dual-gang pots, with switches for each channel -- A, B and Multiples. I also use Mixer PCBs to separate a mix the channels. That was one thing I wanted on my original -- the ability to separate channels.

The other thing, for audio divisions, was to have a jack for each output. Then, with some EGs or sequencers and VCAs, you could do some really fun mixing of divisions and tones.

I haven't even started building yet, but I will put some pics up when I do. Right now I'm focusing on another fantastic CGS module -- the sequential switch!!!!

Both of these modules are what I call "spaghetti behind the scenes" -- A huge mess behind the panel.

My new panel:
http://www.bridechamber.com/bridechamber.com/SubOsc.html

PCBs I'll use for buffers on my planned expansion panel (a jack for each division):
http://www.bridechamber.com/bridechamber.com/Buffer%20Inverter.html

To me, Ken's modules are the bee's knees. Modules like the Burst Generator and Slope Detector and Gated Comparator (and on and on) really move you away from the usual VCO-VCF-VCA sound, and your modular becomes more like a collaborator than something to program.

Cheers!
Scott
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fluxmonkey



Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Posts: 708
Location: cleve

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bridechamber wrote:
On the one I'm working on now, I use dual-gang pots, with switches for each channel -- A, B and Multiples. I also use Mixer PCBs to separate a mix the channels. That was one thing I wanted on my original -- the ability to separate channels.

The other thing, for audio divisions, was to have a jack for each output. Then, with some EGs or sequencers and VCAs, you could do some really fun mixing of divisions and tones...


i'm not grasping what exactly yr doing w/ the dualgang and switch arrangement... a wiring diagram would really help.

and just to second the emotion re: the fantasticness of some of these modules. i've been tracking with a patch heavily centered on the Gated Comparator for the past week... too much fun.

b
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bridechamber



Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Posts: 64
Location: Saint Paul, MN

PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's a fancy diagram (sorry, couldn't find my crayons). I hope it makes sense.

Using the 47K resistors in red on Ken's schematic, and then going to the pots, we move the summing node to the switches. We then switch between upper divisions (audio) and lower divisions (control). Each channel does this. On the Bridechamber version, the A and B channels each have their own mixer, for submix and inverted submix outputs. The "Mix" switches then control whether they are included in the final output, or if the final output is just the multiplied signals.

This way you can use the Subosc as intended, but also be using Channel B for something else, or use A and B separately, and then check out what's happening on the Multiply channel, just for fun!

I used the x2 and x2i a lot in my originals, to add harmonics or carve a little bit away. Since everything's in phase, cancellations can be useful!

But it is confusing to wire up at first! When I did my first Subosc it was confusing enough. I don't know why I had to go and make it worse : )
I guess I just _had_ to have those separate channels!


subosc.jpg
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Subosc channel wiring for subchannels and "alt function" switches.
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subosc.jpg


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ericcoleridge



Joined: Jan 16, 2007
Posts: 889
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bridechamber wrote:

I used the x2 and x2i a lot in my originals, to add harmonics or carve a little bit away. Since everything's in phase, cancellations can be useful!


Would you elaborate on this a little? As I'm designing my panel, this is the part that is confusing me. Both divider channels can (optionally) switch between this initial multiplication (x2, x2i). But then only channel B goes to the "prescale" stage (with divisions 2, 3, 5, 7, or bypass). So, would it make sense to have a x2 / x2i switch on both A and B channels, and then a second pre-scale rotary switch for B?

Also, I'm wondering if it's possible or worthwhile to try to bring the pre-scale divisions out to pots or jacks?

I'm planning on using CGS DCMixers to sub-mix A, B, and the Multiplier. I originally wanted individual outs for each separate division, but now I'm thinking I'll compromise with sub-mixes.
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bridechamber



Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Posts: 64
Location: Saint Paul, MN

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The dividers are hardwired to x2. x2i is there because, I think, there was an extra gate and Ken thought it would be fun Smile
Using x2i would just give you inversion on the whole channel, which you can easily get from your final mixers.

x2i is useful to bring out to a pot (and the mix), because you have these huge sounds available, and you can carve out the waveform to something a little less huge but very interesting by using an inversion at a higher frequency to basically add 'dips' at the tops of the waveforms. And it does fun crazy stuff at low frequencies too.

Separate outs can be useful for different applications. For control, you could use each division for different clocking tasks, like any divider. For audio, you could use a separate EG and VCA for different divisions and multiplications for dynamic mixing.

You'll need to buffer each output before each jack.

Have you seen Ken's new Master Divider? You could just build two of those. I used his old version all the time and am planning on doing two of the new ones. Timing modules (and logic modules) are insanely useful for experimental sounds.
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jmejia



Joined: Mar 12, 2009
Posts: 114
Location: portland

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Does anyone have a 2 panelu (5u sized module) implementation of the sub oscillator? I'd like to add one to the 5u system I'm building - and I'd like to do a basic 2-space panel (as opposed to the beautiful but too large for my system bridechamber implementation)

But I'm having trouble figuring out what jacks/pots to plan on bringing out.
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otherunicorn



Joined: May 11, 2008
Posts: 136
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jmejia wrote:
Does anyone have a 2 panelu (5u sized module) implementation of the sub oscillator? I'd like to add one to the 5u system I'm building - and I'd like to do a basic 2-space panel (as opposed to the beautiful but too large for my system bridechamber implementation)

But I'm having trouble figuring out what jacks/pots to plan on bringing out.


There is a second suggested layout on my web page.

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jmejia



Joined: Mar 12, 2009
Posts: 114
Location: portland

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

otherunicorn wrote:
There is a second suggested layout on my web page.


Oh perfect! Thanks Ken! Not sure how I could've missed that... Shocked
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micromusic



Joined: May 05, 2014
Posts: 61
Location: england

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Has any one done a press and peel layout for this I would love to add this to my modular
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